The 464 Connector that doesn’t connect

Saturday 10th February 2024

A quirky TfL bus route has started running on the southern fringe of its operating area.

It’s not often you come across a 16 seat minibus on a TfL bus route.

The 464 Connector is being run by Swanley based Go Coach Hire, famous for running bus routes in the Sevenoaks area, many school contracts in west Kent and the go2 DRT taxi operation. It’s a sub-contract from Transport UK (formerly known as Abellio) on behalf of TfL.

Following nine water main bursts in the last 18 months, Thames Water are replacing the offending main in Ship Hill which leads to the village of Tatsfield. This has meant a road closure preventing buses on route 464 reaching the terminus in the village located south of Biggin Hill, but just over the Greater London boundary in Surrey.

Work had been due to start on Monday 22nd January but was delayed for a week, because as is often the case with utility companies, they have no regard to the impact road closures have on bus services. It’s a 12 week project with work due to be completed on 29th April.

Normally these days, when utilities close roads, it’s just tough luck on residents who can become cut off from a bus route on a diversion, but on this occasion TfL played hardball and Thames Water weren’t granted a permit for the closure until satisfactory alternative arrangements had been agreed.

This involved truncating the Transport UK (formerly known as Abellio) operated route 464 (normally New Addington to Tatsfield) in Biggin Hill as its Enviro 200 buses running the service are too big for the diversionary route to reach the village.

Instead a separate 464 Connector route is providing a shuttle service connecting Biggin Hill where the 464 now ends …

… with Tatsfield, using a small minibus better suited to the narrow and twisty Church Hill on the diversion.

Credit must go to Austin Blackburn and his team at Go Coach as he tells me “we only got confirmation of the job on the Tuesday, six days before it started. I arranged to hire a bus from Kent County Council who were very helpful, and picked it up on the Wednesday. It was prepared for its class 6 MOT on Thursday (it didn’t have a class 6 due to it being an ex section 19 community vehicle), and was MOT tested on Friday. Vinyls were designed, approved by TfL and fitted on Saturday. It was cleaned on Sunday and the service started on Monday with Andy and Dave, Go’s operating managers, having put the schedules together and arranged driver training.”

I was exhausted just hearing about this, and as Austin rightly told me “this proves if you have the right people working on a project you can do things quickly.”

And this being TfL there’s no scrimping on the timetable with half hourly departures on the shuttle bus on Mondays to Saturdays from 06:04 through to 00:03 only reducing to hourly after 20:00. On Sundays an hourly service is provided between 08:03 and 23:03.

Departures listed at the bus stop in Tatsfield

Departures listed in the bus stop at Biggin Hill

This replicates the normal frequency and span of day for route 464 between Tatsfield and New Addington. It’s not bad for a village with a population of 1,816 residents which isn’t even in London, but obviously has a close affinity with it, being literally just over the border.

It all seems too good to be true. And sadly, it is.

There’s a problem.

The 464 timetable showing the through journeys as usually applies

Transport UK (formerly known as Abellio) has kept the northern section of the 464 between New Addington and Biggin Hill running to its usual timetable. This means when the bus arrives in Biggin Hill, taking a slightly longer route to reach the layover point so the bus is pointing in the right direction to return to New Addington…

… it doesn’t give enough time for the 464 Connector bus to connect, head off to Tatsfield on the diversion, turn at Tatsfield, retrace the diversion back to Biggin Hill and connect with the same bus on the 464 which has been laying over all that time.

The bus will have left before the 464 Connector arrives leaving passengers from Tatsfield with a half hour wait for the next bus to arrive.

And that’s assuming the 464 Connector bus waits for the 464 from New Addington to arrive in Biggin Hill. Unfortunately it’s timed to depart before the 464 arrives so passengers are faced with a half hour wait at that end too.

Whichever way you cut it by leaving the layover time as it usually is at the New Addington end of the route, there’s not enough time for the bus to leave there as normal, reach Biggin Hill, connect with the minibus which continues on to Tatsfield and back to Biggin Hill and connect with the normal bus back to New Addington and arrive there at the usual time.

Unfortunately the Transport UK (formerly known as Abellio) operated northern part of the 464 between Biggin Hill and New Addington is doing just that, as though nothing has changed.

I tried two times to make the connection on two different days and on one occasion the 464 Connector was leaving just as we arrived…

… it was a Go Coach Optare Solo in standard yellow and purple colours as the minibus was being cleaned back at the depot – and having waited half an hour for it to come back again – it did connect with the next 464 arrival …

…but by the time we got to Tatsfield and back – we missed the onward connection to New Addington as the 464 had already left.

The same thing happened on my second visit. This time the 464 left New Addington two minutes early at 10:38…

… but we met traffic coming in the other direction on the narrow Saltbox Hill on the route between New Addington and Biggin Hill…

… and then there’s the extra loop in Biggin Hill the bus takes to reach what is supposed to be the connecting bus stop. It all takes time and the connecting bus can’t afford to wait or it’ll miss the connection on the way back.

The diversion is longer than the normal route via the closed Ship Hill…

… and includes this tricky narrow stretch of Church Hill where journeys can get delayed by two or three minutes just negotiating past other traffic.

There’s no way the 464 Connector can leave Biggin Hill at 25 and 55 minutes past the hour get to Tatsfield and be back again in time for the 464 leaving Biggin Hill for New Addington at 45 and 15 minutes past the hour (so it passes the timing point of Sunningvale Garage at 46 and 16 as normal), which is what the buses are doing.

Furthermore leaving New Addington at 10 and 40 minutes past the hour means the 464 doesn’t get to Biggin Hill until around 27 or 57 minutes past the hour, too late for the 25 and 55 departures on the Connector to Tatsfield.

It’s a classic non connecting Connector.

But it is a scenic diversion and well worth the ride to enjoy the Surrey views across the M25 towards Westerham.

What needs to happen to make this arrangement work is to transfer five minutes layover from New Addington down to Biggin Hill. TfL might well say, leaving New Addington five minutes ahead of the usual scheduled time will inconvenience passengers. But that’s what’s happening at the Tatsfield end of the route where the 464 Connector leaves at 05 and 35 instead of 10 and 40. Transport UK (formerly known as Abellio) might say the 464 drivers need a toilet stop in New Addington, but five minutes should be enough for that and the poor Go Coach drivers don’t even get that at Tatsfield. (There’s nowhere ‘to go’ in Biggin Hill where the buses wait.)

And while in New Addington, maybe TfL should put up some information about the diversion and arrangements at that end of the route too? At the moment there’s nothing. Just a graffiti attacked timetable case.

And the buses show Biggin Hill as the destination on the outside…

… but still display and announce Tatsfield inside…

… leaving southbound passengers, unfamiliar with the arrangements, totally confused.

Down in Tatsfield it’s more obvious something is up…

… and there is information …

… including a timetable for the Metrobus (formerly known as Southdown) operated route 595 which also serves Tatsfield (from Oxted and Westerham) but is unaffected by the Ship Hill closure…

… and, thoughtfully, someone has left an Oyster card lodged in the frame.

One connection that does work is with a school bus in Tatsfield with Go Coach driver Laurence overseeing the transfer.

I understand around 100 passenger journeys are being made on a weekday on the 464 Connector which, thanks to Thames Water’s generosity (!), works out at a subsidy of around £9 per journey, but the 464 timetable urgently needs sorting.

Go Coach is doing its bit but come on TfL and Transport UK (formerly know as Abellio), sort this out.

Preferably before the contract ends in April.

Thanks.

Writing on behalf of the residents of Tatsfield.

Roger French

Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThS.

On Tuesday, 13th February, at 12:00 don’t miss my free-to-attend online webinar “Secrets of a Successful Bus Operation” thanks to the Foundation for Integrated Transport. Book your place here.

Comments are welcome but please keep them relevant to the blog topic, avoid personal insults and add your name (or an identifier). Thank you.

28 thoughts on “The 464 Connector that doesn’t connect”

  1. This sorry tale is one of the perils of the TfL method of running bus services. All involved can see what is required to make it work to the benefit of the passenger, but the “terms of the contract” rule.
    If the operator doesn’t run to time, then penalties will accrue, and in a worst case might even trigger early contract termination . . . strange but true. It needs TfL to agree to the contract variation, and that is only done at a high level, with a paper written outlining the problem, the mitigations needed and the recommended actions.

    In the real world, two people would have a chat, agree the solution and implement it …. any paperwork would catch up later.
    The procedure for any changes to a TfL timetable are set down, and woe betide anyone that breaches them.

    Manchester, Liverpool and the rest …. be afraid … be very afraid !!!

    Liked by 2 people

    1. It’s really not an issue with the TfL way of working. When there’s a pressing need such things can be implemented far more quickly than you’re suggesting. Why they haven’t in this case I’ve no idea, but perhaps Roger’s blog will help move things along.

      Steve

      Liked by 2 people

    2. I certainly agree with those comments, but cannot quite understand that if TfL were so concerned as to play “hardball” in ensuring Tatsfield kept a service, they then allow this ridiculous situation to develop! Surely basic common sense would have allowed an emergency connecting timetable to have been drawn up as with the recent 246 diversion through Tatsfield. Headways were widened to 36-37 minutes, so why not the same?

      Terence Uden

      Liked by 1 person

    3. @greenline727 – outside London, if an operator fails to adhere to the published timetable, they can find themselves in front of the Traffic Commissioner.

      In the case of the failed connections, one of which appears to have failed as the inbound bus came into view, you might hope that the driver of the onward connecting bus might wait (good customer service from a private operator and all that), but that doesn’t appear to have happened in Roger’s attempts to connect onto the Connector.

      Malc M

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Only a £9 subsidy. They are not even trying. The Sunday service of the 94 that runs through South Woodham Ferrers receives a council subsidy worth £297 per passenger journey made.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Back in the day it was the 403 that served Tatsfield. Perhaps they could extend one of those an hour to Tatsfield instead?
    And I think its causing issues for the 695 school bus too

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “Back in the day” it was actually the Green Line “F” pre-war, 706 post-war which served Tatsfield, the 403 only working odd early am/late pm/school times. A 403C to Warlingham (One man Cub) had to suffice during the war years. The 403 was only diverted after the 706 became a peak hour only route on the Westerham section when converted to OMO in 1968.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. I did the whole route on the day that the Surrey section became available to Travelcard & Bus Pass holders. The Metrobus driver on duty tried to charge me for the out county section but I had already in my possession the leaflet detailing the new ticketing opportunities. Passenger 1 Driver 0.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. So Go Coach can run the Connector with a Solo, but Transport UK (formerly known as Abellio) can’t. Can’t Transport UK hand the whole route over to Go Coach to run it as a through service using Solos?

    MotCO

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Fascinating, thanks. A route that didn’t exist at all in the mid 1970s, Tatsfield being served by a double run on hourly LCBS route 483 (long gone) from Croydon to Westerham and Tonbridge. A link to Biggin Hill and also South to Oxted came in late 1976 with the Surrey CC supported “Village Bus” LCBS 465 but that only ran TuThF with 2 return journeys (intended presumably for shopping in Oxted). LCBS used BNs (7ft6 wide Bristol LHSs) including the Ship Hill section. I think this section of the 465 may have been cut by the time LCBS replaced BNs at Chelsham with Nationals, which would have been fun.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Partly covered by Orpington and District 860 between 1976 and 1977 I think – although after the RAF base that took a right turn through Leaves Green, before heading towards Croydon via Kenton and Coney Hall.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. We used to do Tatsfield shuttles on the 464, when Metrobus ran the route. Back then, we had two Sprinters for the R8 (only one needed) so it was kept in house

    The issue, I suspect, is the automated QSI system, which uses GPS data to check time keeping. If the buses do not run to the timetable, and are very late, TfL will just say there was an appalling service and Transport UK would lose money.

    TfL are actually the ones who should say to both parties “Make sure you connect, regardless of times!”

    Back in Metrobus days, the duty cards for this route said “Wait at the top of Saltbox Hill or the end of Sunningvale Avenue if you haven’t seen the other bus”. So that may also be a factor – you wouldn’t want to meet the other bus in a narrow section, such as Saltbox Hill

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I too believe that the need to avoid 464s meeting on Saltbox Hill could be the reason the main 464 timetable has not been changed. I could be wrong though.

      Julian Walker

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Retiming the 464 could cause problems on Salt Box Hill if journeys towards New Addington were earlier, or journeys towards Biggin Hill/Tatsfield were later, than normal. However, adding more stand time at Biggin Hill to allow the Connector more time to get to Tatsfield and back would have the opposite effect.

        Malc M

        Liked by 1 person

  8. I knpw this route quite well, though I last rode it in Metrobus days! Good to hear that TfL faced down the ultility … but not enough. The standard should be that the utility pays for doubling the bus service – roadworks almost always mean extra journey time – and also for special publicity at all bus stops including on journeys on routes (e.g., in this case, the 320) which people might use to get to Tatsfield. But this issue can affect any bus route anywhere! When will the bus industry collectively show its industrial strength and get the system improved?
    Rick Townend

    Liked by 1 person

    1. The utilities have statutory powers to dig up roads. Bus operators have no statutory powers. Guess who wins?

      Also worth noting that where permit schemes have been implemented by highway authorities to control utilities’ access, it is rumoured the number of emergency closures – which cannot be controlled – increases.

      And finally, if bus service costs were passed to the utility, they would ultimately end up on your gas, water or electricity bill, to the extent that any regulator would allow (because, unlike the bus industry, all are subject to a degree of independent financial regulation).

      KCC

      Liked by 1 person

  9. It is somewhat mischievous to claim that the 464 Connector is timed to depart Biggin Hill before the incoming bus has arrived.

    Timings for route 464 at Biggin Hill Valley are for the Swievelands Road stop, which is beyond the temporary terminus for the 464. The Connector is timed to provide an immediate connection from the incoming 464 (which should arrive at the “Flying Machine” at pretty much the same time it would normally be due at Swievelands Road – generally at xx:25 and xx:55). 464 time schedule is here: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-schedules?Query=464

    On the return from, are passengers being advised to stay on the Connector to the “Flying Machine” to connect onto the onward 464? If so, and depending on what routeing the Connector takes to get back to the Flying Machine, passengers may be better dropped off at the Rosehill Road stop to wait there for the 464 to emerge from its temporary terminus.

    Admittedly, it might help if the northbound 464 were retimed to run a few minutes later to help preserve the connection.

    Malc M
    (very occasional route 464 driver in the dim and distant past!)

    Liked by 1 person

    1. As explained, the 464 is diverted via Norheads Lane and Kings Road which adds a couple of minutes to the journey time (as well as the unpredictability of Saltbox Hill) making for an unreliable arrival at the ‘Flying Machine’.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. That may be. However, the Biggin Hill Valley timing point (Sunningvale Garage on the timetable you have posted, or Swievelands Road on the time schedule) is further along Sunningvale Avenue, thus the arrival time at the Flying Machine should be more-or-less the same. So to claim that the Connector is timed to depart before the inbound 464 arrives is misleading.

        The question in my mind is: have drivers been instructed to wait for connections? If not, why not? If they have been instructed to wait, why are they not doing so?

        Malc M

        Liked by 1 person

  10. I’m aware of recent examples outside London of operators successfully persuading utilities to pay in full for shuttles. So it can be done, although does sometimes require tenacity from the operator and a readiness to enlist public and political support for the cause rather than just accepting a fait accompli from the utility.

    On the closure here I do fully understand why TfL wouldn’t want to change the Addington to Biggin Hill part of the timetable. Presumably lots of people travel solely on that section and wouldn’t have any reason to even be aware of a closure in Tatsfield, let alone be expecting it to affect their journey. I would suggest it is the shuttle timetable which should be designed to fit around the normal Addington to Biggin Hill timetable here, even if that means a temporarily reduced frequency on the shuttle section.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. It would be nice if TfL’s journey planner knew about this Connector thing. I ask it for a bus from Tatsfield to Biggin Hill Kings Road tomorrow lunchtime and it insists on sending me on a nice two-hour journey on the 595 to Westerham, 246 to Biggin Hill, and 320 down to Kings Road.

    MW

    Liked by 1 person

  12. I assume the subsidy per passenger journey includes the cost of publicity ( stop signage etc ), but that publicity (and onboard 464 PIS updates) does need to be made by TfL. In fairness TfL are fairly good and fairly prompt at responding to emergency road closures , so it just takes a bit more thought on the more planned ones to do more than just arrange a replacement service (or instruct the TfL contractor to do it). TfL have been looking for more contract operators , (and there are lots of reasons why GoCoach maybe would not bid) given that large groups that have taken on smaller operators (some of whom were more successful than others). It would be interesting to see a preserved GS (or even a Bristol LH of the kind LCBS used – there are a few around in red and green liveries running a 464connect (additional Sunday service on a running day ?) just for the fun of it.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. re timing departures from New Addington, would residents there really bothered about moving the departures during daytimes earlier by five mins ?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I guess they’d be bothered after turning up at the stop to find the bus is leaving 5 mins earlier than it did previously, and therefore missing it!

      Blue

      Liked by 1 person

  14. This lack of co-ordination is absolutely infuriating! As a passenger waiting in the cold, I would not be best pleased with the drivers who drive off as the connector is arriving and visa-versa. They just need to change the timetable of the shuttle so passengers don’t have to wait so long – even if it’s not an immediate connection… If I was a driver on that route I’d be telling the bosses every day that the timetable isn’t working, leaving passengers with a 30 minute wait, which isn’t acceptable. Those with alternatives will use them instead and may not then return to the bus when it comes back.

    Like

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