Thursday 8th February 2024
BBC London News carried an all too familiar negative bus story at the end of last month featuring one of its own journalists (Paul Moss) alleging buses on his local TfL route 18, despite not being full, are not stopping at a bus stop in Kensal Town leaving passengers frustrated.
Apparently when the bus comes “it doesn’t stop, it just carries on and just goes sailing past and sometimes you can see that there are free seats, it’s not crowded, but the bus doesn’t stop.”
It sounded just the kind of mainstream media bus knocking story BusAndTrainUser Verify was set up to check out, not least as the copy went on to report TfL stating “the bus can be classified as ‘full’ by the driver even if only the lower deck is at capacity” and the upper deck could be empty.
What?!!
Paul Moss also told BBC London’s transport correspondent, Tom Edwards, who fronted the story, he’d spoken to a ticket inspector who’d told him “the schedule is too tight” adding “the drivers have been told ‘if you’re late, if you don’t have time’ …. then just go go go”.
Now this really was stretching the bounds of credulity for me, as firstly, I haven’t seen a “ticket inspector” on TfL buses in the last eleven years of travels and secondly I find the assertion of “sailing by bus stops” to compensate for “a tight schedule” the complete opposite to my London bus travels, characterised by the all too frequent announcement “the driver of this bus has been told to wait a short time to help even out the service” as well as on occasions crawling along at what seems like little more than walking pace to lose time.
Furthermore, in my experience, London’s bus drivers are the best at waiting for passengers and ensuring ‘runners’ are picked up rather than being left at bus stops,
Ben Bradshaw, who oddly for an Exeter MP has an office in Kensal Town, is also quoted in the story saying this “seems to be a particular problem on the 18” while Paul Moss adds “buses for other routes that use the same stop – the 28 and 228 – always stop”.
The bus operator – RATP Dev – is quoted in the story: “the number of complaints about buses not stropping on the route was ‘relatively small'”, which struck me as a rather weak defence, but there again, route 18 is TfL’s flagship route in that its by far the busiest of the Capital’s 544 bus routes.
You can read the BBC story here and watch a video of Tom Edwards’ broadcast report on Friday 26th January on BBC London here, which includes mobile phone footage of two buses not stopping.
Aiming as always to get to the bottom of such stories and check out their veracity, I set off from home at a very early hour on Tuesday morning bound for Harrow Road in Kensal Town to find the bus stop featured in the story and see for myself whether buses on the 18 are still “sailing by”.
The story doesn’t say what time buses allegedly don’t stop, nor the name of the stop but it’s a fair assumption the incidents are in the morning peak period and looking at the footage and photographs I worked out the bus stop must be ‘Third Avenue Stop P’ on Harrow Road in Kensal Town, which is indeed used by routes 18, 28 and 228.
It’s the 28th of 47 stops between route 18’s western terminus at Sudbury & Harrow Road station and its eastern terminus at Euston station. At the height of the morning peak period the end to end journey is scheduled to take 78 minutes with 35 buses allocated to the route running every four minutes, making it one of London’s most frequent routes, if not, I suspect, the most frequent.
As I headed westwards towards Harrow Road on a Sudbury bound 18, buses coming towards me were definitely well loaded …
… and as we neared the stop in question…
… a flotilla of four Euston bound buses passed by.
I arrived at Stop P for 07:40 and dutifully observed the next ten departures on route 18 up to 08:20 which coincidentally worked out to a departure, on average, every four minutes. A section of the full timetable is shown below.
The actual times the ten buses arrived at Stop P were:
07:45; 07:48; 07:53; 07:56; 08:04; 08:06; 08:15; 08:15; 08:16; 08:19
giving a headway between buses in minutes during this 40 minute period as:
5-3-5-3-8-2-9-0-1-3
Every bus stopped at the stop and passengers alighted.
Inevitably after that nine minute gap following the 08:06 departure with three buses coming virtually nose-to-tail together at 08:15/08:16, things went a bit awry.
The bus arriving in the middle of the threesome had obviously been in the lead at some point as it really did look full up when it arrived.
The bus which arrived first, ahead of it, was busy…
… but had room for the three passengers waiting at the stop to board and still had seats available as it left.
As soon as that headed off, the full bus arrived with no-one now waiting at the bus stop…
… and while some passengers alighted …
… the driver failed to open the front door to let a passenger board, who’d just arrived at the stop.
But as you can see, as the bus pulled away, the lower deck was ‘rammed’, the upper deck looked very busy and passengers were already standing by the driver …
… and he probably was aware another bus was on his tail, and sure enough as that bus departed, within a minute, the next one arrived …
… and the passenger was able to board.
After that, the next bus arrived at 08:19 picking up two more passengers who had arrived at this busy stop …
… and I decided as the next departure was showing as arriving at 08:28, in another eight minutes, to try and jump on that myself and see how busy the bus would be.
Reaching the bus stop, I noticed the real time departure screen in the shelter was showing different information to TfL’s Go app …
… as well as being a bit behind reality with the bus arriving when the sign reckoned it was still two minutes away.
The bus picked up the six of us waiting at 08:26 and although there were no empty seats on the lower deck there was room to easily gain access to the stairs and there were around 6-8 empty seats on the upper deck.
I decided to enjoy the journey all the way to Euston and see whether traffic delays do make the schedule tight to maintain, as the ticket inspector had reportedly told Paul.
There were some sections of slow moving traffic…
… but thanks to bus lanes …
… and not having to use the always congested Edgware Road flyover…
… and a fairly smooth passage across the Euston Road/Warren Street junction…
…and one final useful section of bus (and taxi) lane approaching Euston itself…
…it took 36 minutes (arriving 09:02) compared to the scheduled time for that journey of 33 minutes.
So not bad at all and on arrival at Euston the driver and bus layover for 12 minutes before heading back to Sudbury.
What did I learn from my 40 minute kerbside monitoring?
1. Route 18 is TfL’s most frequent bus route, with 35 buses allocated and running every four minutes at peak times.
2. There’s a reason for that. It’s also London’s busiest bus route, carrying 12,630,186 passenger journeys in the year to March 2023.
3. Inevitably buses running every four minutes have a tendency to bunch slightly due to traffic light phasing and a myriad of other impediments to the ‘maintenance of headway’ that can arise, especially at peak times.
4. Despite this, between 07:40 and 08:20 on Tuesday morning at a point roughly half way along the route, ten buses were observed and all stopped at the bus stop in question with none “sailing by”.
5. In one case a passenger was refused entry due to the lower deck being full and there must have been available capacity as some passengers had just alighted. But there was an emptier bus following a minute behind and the passenger boarded that having had to wait in total at the bus stop for just one minute.
6. All other passengers – about 50 in the 40 minute observation period – were able to board within an average of three to four minutes of arriving at the bus stop.
7. It was noticeable some passengers have a preference for standing on the lower deck rather than finding empty seats on the upper deck. This is exacerbated by TfL’s policy of having access to the stairs in the middle of the lower deck rather than at the front, as on buses outside of London, together with many passengers on the route making relatively short journeys and not wanting to go up to the upper deck.
8. Following media coverage of this complaint I suspect RATP Dev, the bus operator, has reminded drivers to play the pre-recorded announcement requesting passengers to use empty seats on the upper deck.
9. It’s not easy for drivers to do more as they can’t compel passengers to do this. And on a four minute headway service, the more time that’s spent at bus stops cajoling passengers to move to the upper deck, the quicker the bus behind is catching up.
10. Residents of the Harrow Road area of Kensal Town, including Paul Moss, have an excellent service in route 18 and the drivers are performing a difficult job very well.
Roger French
Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThS. Next Tuesday, 13th February, at 12:00 don’t miss my free-to-attend online webinar “Secrets of a Successful Bus Operation” thanks to the Foundation for Integrated Transport. Book your place here.
Comments are welcome but please keep them relevant to the blog topic, avoid personal insults and add your name (or an identifier). Thank you.
BusAndTrainUser 
Ahh for the days of Bendi Buses on the 18 & thier huge capacity. I remember them coping so well with large loads from Marylebone.
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And how many were actually paying?
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Whilst I appreciate that there are also significant costs involved that looks to be one hell of a profitable route – even with wage costs at £6m.
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Clearly the operator RATP are doing their best to run a good service but as Richard Jones says Bendybuses were ideal for a service like this. An alternative would be tri-axle buses which operate successfully in Edinburgh. They would need to be route tested first to see if they actually fit but the 18 is a rather straight route. The higher capacity vehicles would also reduce the PVR and in the long term reduce the cost of operation which is considerable on this route. It would, however require TfL to be innovative and supportive. Thereby lies the challenge.
Martin W
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Bendy buses were terrible for long routes like this in London. With a small seats to space ratio people could end up standing for ages. And they were very uncomfortable for standing. They were supposed to be accessible but in my experience on the 25 in East London wheelchair users couldn’t board as there was no room. They were good for short routes like the 507 and 521 but ironically when London decided to ditch them they were the first to go. Contracts I believe.
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But for this route, many people making shorter trips prefer to stand.
For me, standing on a bendy bus is more comfortable than standing on the very cramped lower deck of a DD.
With accessibility, there may be the issue of wheelchair users not being able to board, but having far more space available on one level means a bendy bus is better for accessibility for those who would struggle to climb stairs.
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Isn’t Ben Bradshaw the MP for Exeter?
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Thanks; yes he is. Have just added a qualifier to the story … he has an office in Kensal Town (bizarrely).
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He has a flat in Kensal Town. Most MPs who represent constituencies away from London have a residence both in their constituency and in the capital and are paid expenses to maintain two homes. It’s possible Mr Bradshaw already owned this flat before he was elected MP for Exeter.
Julian Walker
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I’d like to widen the issue discussed slightly by asking why it is now commonplace for buses not to stop at ‘compulsory stops’: ie white as opposed to red signs. My guess is that drivers are trying to save time when they see no waiting passengers, but both those on the bus and those waiting are not actually required to signal to the driver since the bus is COMPELLED to stop. Any answers?
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That’s because since 2007 they’ve all just been bus stops as elsewhere in the country. Despite predictions at the time that it would lead to chaos it unsurprisingly works perfectly well.
Steve
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The distinction between compulsory (white) and request (red) stops has been phased out in London. Most red request stops (though inevitably not all) have been vinyled over so they are all identified as “bus stop” now.
-Darran G
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If you were standing Roger then you may not have noticed but otherwise im surprised you didnt comment on the internally filthy state of the 18 buses. Lots of ingrained dirt and grime, that looks like the bus has never been deep cleaned. Even on buses that have come straight from the garage there’ll be chicken boxes and bones as well as bottles littering the floor. Yes i’ve complained to TFL about it but to no avail. Most of the double decker routes run out of RATPs Park Royal Garage look equally grim such as the 266. A metroline bus from Willesden bus garage by comparison is far cleaner. So id say Park Royal Garage has more than a few issues. And some of their drivers will happily sail past stops even if half empty, with the next bus 2 minutes behind. So id say the route is pretty poorly run. The one and only postitive is your pretty much guaranteed to get a fast journey, unlesd your buses gets dumped at Scrubs lane for over 10 minutes whilst 3 others overtake as you wait for driver changeover. Roger you need to go back and ride the route from Sudbury to Euston in the late afternoon. Then you really see the issues.
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The point about bus cleanliness is a fair one and varies across garages and companies. A case of the good, the bad and the ugly. I don’t think TfL take any note of this
Martin W
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I still always hail the bus. In theory this should not be necessary, as drivers are supposed to stop at every stop with people waiting, in case there is someone there who is blind or partially sighted. Theoretically getting off is not a problem as the stop is announced, although not sure how deaf blind people would cope. There does however seem to be an increasing trend for buses not to stop if no one is getting off, if they are late, and another bus is close behind. Whilst disconcerting to people waiting, the logic can’t be faulted.
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I think the compulsory/request stop mixture is confusing. I no longer live in London but, when I did, I learned that it was not possible to trust compulsory stops when alighting – if you didn’t ring the bell and there was no-one waiting, the bus wouldn’t stop. Tourists and visitors hail all buses anywhere. (Here in Cardiff we have the opposite problem – people at stops who just stand there and make no sign at all!)
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There’s been no distinction between compulsory and request stops since around 2007. They are all just bus stops like everywhere else. Obviously changing all the flags would have been an enormous and unnecessary cost.
Steve
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LT used to produce posters explaining the difference between ‘red’ and ‘white’ stops. Have TfL ever communicated the 2007 changes?
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Don’t believe they ever have to the public.
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Thanks for illuminating this – which if it was in the summer could be written off as a ‘silly season’ non-issue. I’m interested as to why this is TfL’s busiest bus route. It isn’t for lack of a rail alternative – the route starts at a Chiltern station, not far from the Piccadilly line, picks up and parallels the Bakerloo/Overground Watford ‘DC’ line till Willesden, and calls at various tube stations after that. Some of the DC line stations are notably a long way from their respective town centres, and maybe Tfl could ease the strain on the 18 by some very local links around Willesden Junction, though there are already quite a lot, such as the 7/8 minute frequency 266. But a four-minute frequency, though rare these days, was quite usual on many routes back in the 1960s – and not just in London. As you say, it seems to be pretty well run!
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Yes there are parallel rail services but the buses are much cheaper and used by a number of people on low wages. Many will work unsocial hours and the 18 wins the game. People who don’t pay fares (including those working for TfL and their nominees) don’t always get that (neither does rail modelling)
Martin W
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Simple answer is the lower fare compared to rail, and the demographic of people living in the area needing to save money.
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Apologies – didn’t sign the above – Rick Townend
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I always look forward to your TfL blogs.
A very fair report, capturing perfectly the issues with operating such a high frequency, busy route.
I was a bit puzzled by your point no. 7. The staircase is in exactly the same location as on modern buses outside London. Move a forward ascending straight staircase any further forwards and it would be against the top deck windscreen!
Far more of an issue is why operators outside London stubbornly stick with single door buses on busy urban routes. It’s quite bonkers.
Steve
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The reasons why dual door vehicles aren’t so common in the provinces? The loss of seated capacity, issues of redeployment, bus stop infrastructure, use of saw tooth bus stations, additional cost – that’s why
BW2
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I presume it is probably a reference to the TfL specification of straight staircases which make the access to the stairs further back into the middle of the bus however as a number of provincial operators have moved towards straighter staircases in recent years & manufacturers have improved the design of straight staircases to reduce that wasted space I’m not sure that the difference is that big anymore.
As for single-door buses in the provinces there are actually few places where buses have busy stops used by both alighters & boarders where the bus isn’t scheduled to sit at the stop for some time anyway so the added cost (financial & opportunity through layout compromises) will bring less advantage. In my home city (medium sized) even with the cross city routes there are only really two stops (the station or hospital) where there are high volumes of boarding & alighting likely and even then it isn’t big on most routes (as both are on the edge of the city centre so most walk to/from city centre destinations) outside the single city centre layover stop (where buses can sit for 5 or 10 minutes and change driver so speed of loading is not important). You then get to local constraints such as bus station & stop layouts that may constrain, one of our main stops in the city centre (on a route which can see dual-doors vehicles) has railings that prevent the use of the middle doors and a number of places ban dual-door vehicles from nose in bus stations which will prevent widespread usage in those areas. Each city, route & operator will be slightly different and this argument is by no means universal, insurmountable or permanent but the nearly universality of single-door vehicles is certainly not ‘bonkers’.
Dwarfer
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I think we have to assume that most operators are not “quite bonkers”. I tend to agree with dwafer that there are few places outside London where there are significant numbers boarding and alighting at the same time of day at the same stop.
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Just goes to show what a load of nonsense/outright lies was made up by the MP/ BBC. I’m sure occasionally there are drivers that don’t stop (properly because they believe that it is full even when there may be a few seats) but I’m sure this is just a few vehicles (as observed in the peak) and when you have a frequent service like this, proportionately I doubt it different to any other route. The report lost all validity with the fabricated “ticket inspector” telling drivers just go go go… as Roger said , a ticket inspector hasn’t been seen for years and they simply would not say this anyway. This sort of fabrication should not be making a media outlet like the BBC
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There certainly are still ticket inspectors, although rarely seen. Many people are not willing to go upstairs due to percieved safety concerns (especially later in the day) and of course lazyness. That the downstairs then becomes so packed, often with a couple of prams into the mix, and disabled people having to stand, all points towards TfL needing to mount a campaign to get able bodied people to use the top deck. If people won’t go up, there is little the driver can do.
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This is endemic across the Capital. There are numerous passengers who would only climb the stairs at the point of a gun. They are members of the Lower Deck Gangway Club. I am partially disabled and need to fight my way through this throng to climb the stairs to get a seat upstairs rather than join them for my journey. Drivers occasionally encourage intending passengers to board at the centre door. If I happen to be seated downstairs, when observing this I voice my concerns loudly to all and sundry.
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Maybe the standard of public behaviour on buses these days inhibits the inclination to climb stairs to the upper deck? I’m sure 300 TfL Safety Officers spread over 6000+ buses 24/7 will make a difference (not).
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About a year ago I attempted to get on an 18 at Wembley around 15:30. The first one was full and the doors remained closed, the second bus, about a minute behind was full but I managed to squeeze on and stood by the driver for a few stops before making my way upstairs. The bus was not only full all of the time, it was incredibly slow! My plan was to go to Euston, but by the time we reached Westbourne Park I gave up and got the nearby Hammersmith and City line. Yes, it’s certainly the busiest bus route that I’ve travelled on for many years.
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The 18 is a very frequent route so Kensal does have a good service, but the route has no alternative between Central London and Wembley, apart from the 36 between Paddington and Westbourne Park. The 18 should really be 2 or 3 different routes serving different places so a problem in say Wembley or Marylebone doesn’t correlate in an unreliable service for the rest of the route.
I’ve been hacked off at TFL myself lately as they changed the 388 in January, cutting the last bus from Stratford Station to 23:50 instead of 00:15 and only advertising it as a minor timetable change. I’m struggling to rely on buses these days to be honest.
I don’t understand why this happened. Stratford is a major transport hub, the other direction operates until 1am and most other TFL routes run until half midnight. I now have to rely on a 2 minute connection on my way home from work and if I miss it, I’m stuck with no alternative transport.
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Articulated “crush-loaded” buses may have their place on short hop journeys (they could have stayed on the former Red Arrow services), but certainly not suitable for hour or more long journeys such as the 18. Squashed and standing is no inducement to travel and the London suburban road network has little changed since the days of Queen Victoria. The double deckers seat 70+ comfortably, and to increase capacity as suggested by tri-axles, would slow the service yet further.
By observation, ALL TfL services fall apart in the 1515-1615 period, not just the 18, when huge numbers of school children descend, and for those who have a choice, are thus best avoided. Dual door buses are only suited to urban services where passengers are continually boarding and alighting at each stop. There are a number of minor TfL single-deck services which do not need a separate door and seats are lost as a result.
Terence Uden
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Seated capacity of a double deck is closer to 65 these days.
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Terence, as someone who had to suffer the 25 in east London I totally agree with your analysis of the suitability of bendys on long busy London routes. On the school traffic issue in my part of London at least it is not so much about kids on the buses but about the parents who insist on driving their nippers to and from school and completely clogging the roads for 45-60 minutes.
MikeC
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Yes Mike, that is in fact the main reason the services fall apart although I didn’t actually spell it out. I should think the ridiculous “school-run” favoured by the majority, apart from causing gridlock every day in the entire UK, must notch up a point or two when it comes to global warming.
Terence Uden
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Only someone completely unfamiliar with both London and the bus route in question could have written ” it sometimes does not stop at Harrow Road.”
Ian McNeil
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Small typo, Roger. In the sentence about the MP you call it Kendal Town. Had me dreaming of Cumbria!
As for using the upper deck, it’s quite a hazardous process in London. The buses bounce around a fair amount, due to road surfaces and driving style. It’s tricky to climb the stairs if carrying anything, and downright dangerous to descend if the bus is still in motion and you don’t have both hands free to grip the rails. London double deck buses have very little actual seating capacity on the lower deck due to the existence of the stairs, the central doors and the disabled space.
Travelling a lot in European cities, I much prefer their articulated buses as the solution for urban high capacity routes.
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Thanks for spotting that typo. Now corrected.
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The straight staircase makes the stairs much more dangerous when decending. OK when the bus brakes, but if acellerating there is nothing to break your fall like a traditional twisting staircase. I’m sure this contributes to people’s reluctance to go upstairs (it certainly puts me off unless I am going right to the terminus).
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This also raises points about the BBC. Roger could verify what was/wasn’t happening, whereas the BBC appeared to take it at face value. If there really is can issue with buses in the area, where is the local MP representing his constituents concerns, rather than one who was elected in an area where public transport is about as different as you can get from that in London?!
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Well done, Roger – a superb piece of forensic investigation! TfL needs to bring back articulated buses to all the busy routes they were banished from by Liar Boris (no cyclist was ever killed by them but several have been crushed by articulated LORRIES). A 4-minute headway cannot be operated without bunching – not least because double-deck dwell time at stops (of which there are probably too many) far exceeds that of artics. Swiss cities will tell us that 6 minutes is the maximum headway that can effectively be scheduled and the temptation to go lower is dissipated by high capacity (44-metre trams and double-articulated trolleybuses). The 18 would make a perfect tram route (most of it was before the 662 trolleybus came along. By the way, the staircase location is perfect for two-door buses as alighting takes longer than boarding, especially from the upper deck.
Andrew Braddock
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The bendy-fanatics will never give up. Open boarding on the artics led to widespread fare-evasion and gross overcrowding, because the three entrances meant drivers could not control loadings via the front door. Ah, but the Boris Buses perpetuated this, some will say. Yes they did, and that is why TfL changed these to front entrance boarding only. Also, travelling in the rear section, with its single axle, was akin to riding in a caravan. I still recall an early-hours revenue check on am (N)25, where around 15 passengers just made a run for it as they fled the vehicle. On another, daytime, occasion, I boarded to see a ‘homeless and hungry’ beggar happily sitting in the wheelchair zone. Happy memories! Kim
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You rightly point out that it was not the bendies that were the problem, but open boarding. I can’t understand why that wasn’t changed on bendies, rather then so many millions needing to be spend on another open boarding bus, only for that to then be changed! Actually I can – a certain Mr Johnson.
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Certainly round here (not far from the 18) many people don’t pay fares. Drivers are told not to intervene for their own safety, so just let them on free. Much the same on rail. You only have to stand by a tube station gateline for a few minutes to see people pushing through the disabled gate, knowing nothing will ever be done to stop them.
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Agreed, and if the 18 was replaced with a tram they would have more than three doors and be open boarding.
There are some mitigations available to prevent fare evasion. In Amsterdam open boarding lead to massive fare evasion on the trams. The solution adopted was to install a conductor’s booth, to restrict boarding to the door opposite the conductor and the front door. All other doors have gates that only allow alighting.
Articulated buses are the norm on the continent, and operate on streets not dissimilar to UK cities, and not just Scandinavian airports that a previous Mayor would have you believe.
Given the lack of accessible seats on the lower deck of a TfL double decker, artics would offer more chance of a seat for those with mobility issues.
I am looking forward to seeing what TfWM decides to operate on Birmingham Sprint, hopefully similar to Belfast Glider. Then TfL can observe how they work in practice regarding fare evasion.
Dare I even suggest bi Articulated such as some Swiss cities use!
Peter Brown
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UK roads unlike the continent are ill suited to bendi buses. Our roads are narrow and have lots of junctions and lots of tight turns and lots of parked cars etc
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I think the video disproves that.
Peter Brown
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@Anonymous at 11:01 – if that is what you believe, you might want to have a look at this: https://randomstreets.blogspot.com/2014/08/what-is-wide-continental-boulevard.html
I’m not convinced route 18, which follows a fairly straight trajectory along Harrow Road and Marylebone Road, has lots of tight turns (it does have a couple of one-way systems to contend with, but that’s about it)
Malc M
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Thanks for the link Malc, I’ve bookmarked it for future reference.
Peter Brown
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Peter I lived on the 25 in east London when it was bendy. It didn’t work. People ride the route for very long distances despite some parallel rail options. The fare structure and low incomes cause that. Consequently it was very busy all day. In practice wheelchair users couldn’t get on it at all to actually use the spaces provided. Less able users had to stand. And it was very uncomfortable as it swung around corners and hit the bumps and potholes. It was a huge relief to get the deckers back. Whilst I believe there is a great deal to learn from Europe there are also specific local circumstances which must be taken into account. Retaining the bendys for the 507 and 521 should have been obvious but there we are. The biggest structural problem for English buses on very heavy routes is that in Europe those routes would tend to be heavy or light metro or tram. In England we have failed dismally on the infrastructure investment front. But even the Europeans get it wrong occasionally. The increasing move to single deck and bendys in Berlin also doesn’t suit the city’s long and busy bus routes and really worsens the travelling experience there.
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Yes this is eye opening and not just the route 18 either its happening on routes 396 & 296 as well most mornings
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Could all these buses now stopping be due to the adverse publicity received by TfL and the operator? Doesn’t necessarily mean the original report was wrong.
Dan Tancock
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I think the other obvious inaccuracies tend to lessen the credibility of the report.
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@Terence Uden – how many passengers on the 18 are making long distance journeys (for which there are viable rail/tube connections which are far quicker)? And how many are making more local “short-hop” journeys of a few stops? I wouldn’t assume that the majority of journeys are long-distance Sudbury/Wembley to Baker Street/Euston. Wembley, Stonebridge, Harlesden and Kensal Green are all connected to Edgware Road, Marylebone, Baker Street, Regent’s Park and Euston by Bakerloo or Overground.
More generally, while Roger may have taken a “snapshot” on one single day, I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss the lived experience of people who try to rely on the service, day in, day out. I have been in that same situation in the past, facing a daily struggle to try to squeeze onto overcrowded buses when trying to get to work in the mornings, but being told (by people far less familiar with the situation) that there wasn’t a problem. If local users are saying there is a problem, is it better to dismiss/sneer at them from afar? Or to listen to them and acknowledge they just might have a point?
Malc M
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Would it not make more sense to run this using single deckers? The seating capacity is lower, but much higher standing capacity. Based on the Go Coach fleet numbering, an Evora can hold a similar total number of pax as an E400 for example.
If people aren’t going upstairs to sit as they are only going a few stops then having more standing capacity seems the way forward.
It does also beg the question whether the push to cut frequency and use double deckers outside London to maintain overall capacity is actually that good an idea.
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Even better, chain two single deckers together so you only need one driver but still can deploy multiple doors. I’m sure I’ve seen that done somewhere …
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I was intrigued by the bus and trailer setup they have in Munich. Does this offer better capacity or flexibility?
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The hope was to have the same capacity as a articulated bus at peak time and uncouple the trailer in the off peak. As it turns out this never happens, since coupling and uncoupling the trailer takes to long. Partially for this reason Munich hasn’t ordered this setup again and opted to once again order only normal and articulated busses (and extra long articulated busses, the Mercedes-Benz CapaCity).
In general Germany (like the rest of the continent) is a huge fan of articulated busses, you can even sometimes see them in smaller (<50000) cities, but really doesn't use double articulated busses, partially because Hamburg was really unhappy with them and compared to extra long articulated busses they don't offer a lot of additional capacity and much more maintenance headaches.
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The NRM/NBFL may have three doors but passengers are still very reluctant to stand anywhere beyond the centre door, meaning access to the stair is very easily blocked once a dozen standees are picked up… leading to empty seats on the upper deck and the bus sailing past without stopping. Passengers also don’t seem particularly inclined to go find a seat upstairs when they see people coming down to alight. And that’s without mentioning the passengers who wouldn’t go upstairs no matter what. Much prefer the passengers in Hong Kong who properly know how to use a double decker.
And yes, full buses do happen, but I’d argue more commonly on lower frequency routes. The 18, 29 and 38 are good examples of busy routes which will occasionally have a packed bus but likely due to bunching. Bunching on 12+ mins frequency routes is far more conducive to packed buses, not helped by the inevitable early turn. Another issue in Central London is the absolute randomness of passenger numbers and traffic congestion. Aside from the general trend of quieter Mondays and Fridays, the tourism seasonality adds another variable to crowding (it only takes a few families on a bus to fill half upper deck!), along with the completely variable traffic levels which affect the service and thus loadings too. Post-Xmas on the 24 has been quieter for instance with the tourists yet to return in early Jan, buses much empty as a result whether off peak and peak… big contrast to the end of the year where even with an unbunched service running as scheduled buses would come down full from Camden Town down Tottenham Court Road without stopping in the afternoons. Tough to schedule a more intensive service when the demand is so unidirectional and random unless a decision is made to explicitly provide overcapacity on most days to cover spikes in demand.
Matthieu
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In my experience most of the problems of passengers not going upstairs occur during the middle of the day when buses are carrying people with buggies and young children, old people and those with heavy shopping who can’t easily go upstairs. In the morning peak, when Roger was travelling it isn’t usually so much of a problem. I’ve often experienced 38s leaving Victoria full on both decks which largely empty out a few minutes later in Piccadilly. That said, those boarding in the middle of a busy route tend to have more problems than those at the start of a route. Passengers waiting for a southbound 38 in Essex Road may have a different experience. Incidentally the 38 was for many years the most frequent route running every 2-3 minutes. It currently has a similar peak frequency to the 18 – every 4-5 minutes.
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Much less of a problem outside of London as where double deckers are used they only have front entrance doors so have a reasonable amount of downstairs seating the double deckers only really being needed for school hour loadings
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If only there were some kind of vehicle that was perfectly suited for high density urban corridors that are in a relatively straight line?
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My (rhetorical) question is did the complainant hail the bus in the customary manner on the occasions the bus is alleged to have “sailed by”? This is important because the stop is also served by two other routes and the driver of the 18 would reasonably think he was waiting for a 28 or 228 if there was not a clear signal requesting the 18 to stop.
Steven Saunders
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Quite probably,but as I mentiined earlier the driver os instructed to stop if there are people at the stop. Many don’t.
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The state of journalism in the UK is appalling generally, with very little weight being given to accuracy and articles often written by those with little knowledge of the subject. This has been the case since since most journalists went freelance over 30 years ago when the impact of headline grabbing sensationalism, these days replaced by “impressions” (the amount of clicked views a post on a digital media source gets) took over as prime motivator. The article content is often guessed, bought, repeated, read from press releases (which is why mostly the same thing can be read from 100 outlets) and copied from wikipedia in any case. Challenges to the publisher are often met with claims of a restriction to a free media and requests for sources often denied in the name of protecting them.
Maybe all that is not really relevant to a “bus misses its stop” story, but it really just illustrates the lack of morals in journalism generally. You’ll notice how those organisations with the money and will to sue (Apple, Google, Microsoft) tend not to be the victims of this practice. Large retailers and brands who invest heavily in public relations will robustly defend their reputations, often winning cases in court. The rest become fodder and fall victim. The real shame is that parts of the BBC (and other previously more authoritative sources) have fallen the same way as the gutter press. With lots of actual truth with a scientific or properly researched basis being openly challenged because it doesn’t suit a particular agenda, the public are left not knowing what to believe.
Still, I’m going to challenge this one as I suspect its made up and see what happens. I expect it will be ignored.
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“Bus full” signs. Do the bus professionals and specialists here have a view for or against the use of “Bus full” signs? I have seen it used on Metrobus in Sussex but don’t how widespread the practise is, if at all.
Steven Saunders
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I saw “Bus Full” signs only yesterday in Watford, where Arriva insist on cramming people into single-decks on very busy 321s and 322s….several were rammed with standing and it was only in the 1315-1345 hour.
Perhaps they were the overspill from the now abandoned “Click” fiasco?
Terence Uden
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Certainly the 321 cannot cope at the Watford end in the peaks at least, even when a regular 30 min service is running. But getting back to the point, BUS FULL signs can really only work on the comparitively few buses that have electronic displays.
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Certainly used occasionally in Cardiff – as is “set down only” to speed up the service when buses are running late. It was more common during Covid when capacity was limited due to social distancing.
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Cardiff again: we don’t have buses with centre doors but we certainly have problems, both on our double- and single-deckers with folk who stand in the area behind the driver even though there are plenty of seats further back. Backpacks, in particular, get in the way!
Andrew Kleissner.
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How about an automated announcement saying no standing unless no seats are available. Most will probably ignore it but a few will move
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Bus Full signs are common here in Brighton, especially on route 25 along Lewes Road and were just as common when that service had bendy buses, which had front only boarding. Two door buses work well here as the most frequent cross city services 1, 5, 7 & 49 have a lot of stops where passengers get on and off and carry lots of short distance passengers.
Another oddity here is that the upper deck often fills up before the lower deck. You might expect that on the longer distance routes but just last week I experienced this on a No 1 from Hove to Kemp Town in the late afternoon. We behave differently differently down here, as Roger knows well!
Andrew Boag
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I am interested that the working timetable actually has some stops scheduled to a 3 min frequency, this widens as the route progresses to a 5 min difference on some journeys. While not necessarily drawn by AI , it does show on high frequency route a public timetable of 4-5 mins between buses is good enough with the specifics (with enough stand time flex to catch up return journey does work well.
As to non-use of upper deck indeed the reasons by others , not going fare, difficulties in mobilty do have issues. I am not sure my younger days of schoolkids travelling on notional 56 seat RTs that the 3kids to 2seats was allowed in London, but we certainly absorbed a lot of bodies , easily taken upstairs by the rear platform based staircase. Schoolchildren seem larger nowdays and low floor double deckers in london do seem to have a lack of seats (and standing space even) . The 192 in Manchester as a high frequency route seems to work well as a single door bus even with lots of stops folk boarding and alighting , perhaps the difference with that route is not all buses are scheduled to travel the full distance , with some only doing half in each direction, others terminating early at key points along the route (and starting at same places bringing into service a level of vehicles that are more empty of passengers ready to fill up. London doesnt really do this (with odd journey exceptions). Back in London the 200 route I notice is mainly run with single deckers (pending electric fire investigations), and actually seems to be better with swifter journeys, with a bit of double deck use at school times. As to why in Peaks the 18 should be so busy , well the Bus fare is £1.75 with an option to transfer to another route effectively in the hour for no further cost. The train fare is £2+ and if you dont have season tickets that is quite a saving over a week
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Local MP Ben Bradshaw..? I doubt he was waiting for a bus to take him to his constituency in Exeter! Rarely seen without his bicycle though…
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4-minute headways!? Wow!! Here in New York City, I don’t want to say I’d kill for 4-minute headways, but the fact that the schedule even has those numbers is absolutely amazing to this NYer. When we have the bunching-up problem, it results in you waiting not for 1 more minute, but for the next bunch and it could easily be 10 minutes or more.
And we are due to get our congestion surcharge fee in a few more months (I think the latest start date is June 2024). It’s going to be fun to see what happens then.
Anyway, a shout-out to Tom Scott for bringing me here since he’s no longer doing his weekly Monday videos.
Stephen – NYC
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