Sullivan saves route 84

Saturday 12th February 2022

There’s been much consternation among bus passengers living in Potters Bar and the surrounding area over the last week. Long standing route 84 between St Albans and New Barnet has been deregistered by Metroline.

The 84 is one of those iconic routes with a long history stretching back over a century and was always a welcome oddity in its London Transport era being a red central bus route extending well into green country bus territory with its northern terminus in the bus station adjacent to the delightful St Albans bus garage.

For many years at its southern end, the route turned round alongside the iconic Arnos Grove Charles Holden designed Piccadilly Line Underground station with Sunday journeys once extended further east to Walthamstow Crooked Billet

Unlike TfL’s route 465 which has continued to take red buses all the way south to Dorking even to this day (with financial support from Surrey County Council) route 84 hasn’t featured in TfL (and its predecessors’) route portfolio since 1982 when it transferred to London Country ending up being operated by Metroline as a commercial venture from its Potters Bar garage, which largely operates TfL contracted bus routes across a swathe of north London.

Having tried various initiatives to improve its financial performance Metroline has now decided it can no longer sustain the route’s losses particularly with Covid having decimated much of the 84’s passenger base and still no certainty of DfT Covid support funding from April. It was inevitable its potential withdrawal would cause a lot of angst.

Passengers have organised themselves and set up an online petition …

…. as well as organised a protest rally outside Metroline’s Potters Bar garage for next Saturday morning.

But petitions and rallies seldom have much impact in the cold light of a financial deficit on a commercial bus route day. More important is how much revenue there is to cover the costs.

I thought I’d better go and take a look at how the route was performing so journeyed up to St Albans on Thursday morning for a ride.

I caught the 11:14 from St Albans when five other passengers boarded with me at the St Peter’s Street terminus by the town’s main shops together with one more boarding seven minutes later when we reached St Albans City railway station.

Three of these six passengers alighted a few minutes later as we left St Albans through the residential area known as The Camp where we also picked one up.

Once on London Road we soon reached London Colney where the other three from the start alighted and we picked up two more passengers giving us a compliment of three who all got off alongside Sainsbury’s and M&S which are part of the large Colney Fields Retail Park including many other national retail chains (and lots of free car parking) at the southern end of London Colney.

Between St Albans and Colney Fields Retail Park passengers can travel on the hourly Arriva route 357 (albeit via a residential area called Napsbury Park) or half hourly Uno route 602 running direct while Red Eagle/Redline route S1 runs hourly in The Camp area.

We overtook a bus on route 602 waiting time in London Colney (taken through a rather dirty front windscreen).

From Colney Fields Retail Park route 84 is on its own for the two-and-a-half mile bash alongside the M25 down to South Mimms.

Crossing over the M25

We picked up two returning shoppers by Sainsbury’s who were the only passengers on board for this section of route – the sole preserve of the 84.

We soon reached the White Hart pub at South Mimms where one of these two passengers got off and two joined us bringing us back up to three on board. The other shopper from Sainsbury’s alighted as we approached Potters Bar and we picked up one more and another two at Cranborne Road. On this section of route we parallel Sullivan Buses operated route 398 but its frequency is not what it once was – now with just three daytime journeys between 09:00 and 15:00 – update – I’m advised the 398 now runs hourly albeit an old timetable is showing on the Intalink website.

At Potters Bar railway station, one of the White Hart passengers alighted and two more boarded. One from Cranborne Road got off at the next stop in Darkes Lane by the shops and another got off when we arrived opposite Metroline’s Potters Bar bus garage, which looked busy with buses for an off peak hour.

Two more boarded at the bus stop after we’d crossed Southgate Road (A111) bringing us back up to six on board.

We headed down the A1000 (another road being exclusive to the 84) towards Chipping Barnet having crossed the Greater London boundary by Hadley Highstone and we dropped two passengers off in Barnet’s High Street and another two at the stop after the Church. One more alighted by High Barnet Underground station and the final passenger alighted at Warwick Road, the stop before New Barnet railway station where we arrived three minutes early at 12:22 instead of the scheduled 12:25.

The bus lays over for thirteen minutes before heading back to St Albans at 12:38. Interestingly at St Albans the bus has 20 minutes layover making for 33 minutes in the three hour cycle.

At one time where these cars are parked one could find green country buses parked up on a variety of routes from as far away as Hitchin, Bishops Stortford and Watford/Leavesden.

Overall, sixteen passengers travelled on that journey which took 71 minutes from end to end. Taking a look at the buses we passed heading in the other direction – two were double decks and three were single decks, the loadings looked similar to my experience. So let’s assume this is fairly typical. More passengers undoubtedly travel in the peaks and I also understand Wednesdays and Saturdays off-peaks are busier as they’re market days in St Albans, but on the other hand evening and Sunday journeys are likely to be less busy. So let’s take 16 passengers per journey as a very rough average.

Let’s say the average fare paid (and reimbursed by Hertfordshire for concessionary passes) is £2 per passenger (taking account of discounted return fares) making for £32 per journey. Aside from schooldays only journeys – which I’m assuming will definitely be put out to tender as a separate matter – there are approximately 400 single journeys a week (62 each day on a Monday to Friday, 59 on a Saturday and 32 on a Sunday) on route 84. So let’s say taking account of bank holidays that works out at 20,000 journeys per annum. On my rough calculation therefore, revenue will be £640,000.

A rough assessment of costs for a six PVR bus route running daily as well as some evening journeys would probably come to at least £900,000 if not pushing £1 million.

It therefore looks like there’s a deficit of around a third of the costs – ie about £300,000.

The good news announced yesterday is that South Mimms based Sullivan Buses has decided to take the route on and is registering a replacement timetable to keep the service on the road when Metroline withdraws on 1st April.

Not surprisingly there are some changes with the route curtailed at Potters Bar and the section south to Barnet and New Barnet withdrawn. In addition a loop arrangement will be introduced around Potters Bar meaning a trip from Potters Bar to St Albans can easily be accommodated in an hour. It’s not clear whether the new timetable will be reduced to hourly – I suspect it will – meaning Sullivan Buses will only need two buses instead of six and probably retain around 75% of the revenue. So not bad going. It’s possible school journeys will run as extra peak journeys with some financial help from Hertfordshire County Council.

This will just leave the section between Potters Bar and New Barnet uncovered and ironically Metroline run a significant number of buses up and down this road taking buses to and from their TfL routes for driver duty changes. You’d think it might be possible to get round the TfL bureaucracy and find a way of running some of these in service for the benefit of passengers making journeys between Hertfordshire across the border and Greater London, and vice versa. Going back in history route 134 used to run regularly on this section of route, rather like route 298 does today on the parallel A111 linking Southgate, Cockfosters and Potters Bar – ironically currently run by Sullivan Buses on behalf of TfL.

Well done Sullivan Buses. It’s good to see route 84 will live on and it looks like that protest rally can be called off.

Roger French

Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThSSu.

Next blog, Sunday 13th February 2022: (the delayed) C is for Carlisle.

45 thoughts on “Sullivan saves route 84

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  1. Some good-ish news then; and maybe that protest gathering could be turned into the basis for a ‘Friends of the 84’ user group, or even for the Potters Bar area. In general the railway user groups have done a good job representing passengers, and providing a positive conduit for communication with the train operators – who usually seem to welcome their input. Maybe the Bus Industry should take a leaf out of their book (after all, many train operators have been owned by bus groups – though the communication between bus and train people appears to have been disappointingly minimal) and encourage the formation of bus user groups.

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    1. There is a longstanding Potters Bar and St. Albans Bugs, as locally with Stevenage and North Herts (to merge). That’s the story as they become ever stretched, and few management or passengers have the time, or the inclination for the hassle. Even where the Bugs should have a role, in Enhanced Partnerships, their role is unclear, if not forgotten. That’s bureaucracy. Fortunately it may all be easier for a local independent with its roots in the local community?

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  2. What has TfL bureaucracy got to do with it? If there is a commercial prospect of running those empty stock movements as passenger services, then metroline can do that commercially. They only need to apply for an London Service Permit that they may even be able to transfer from the existing 84 registration.

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    1. There are a few things that make this not easy. Firstly, every bus would have to carry a 2nd ticket machine as the TfL owned one could not be used. And registering the journeys would preclude short notice changes to any of the TfL routes involved, even if it was just a duty schedule alteration as might affect which bus runs to or from garage. I suppose the answer to those is to just run it free, but then what is the incentive. Thirdly, the cost of blinds would be horrendous, and fourthly, whilst early mornings (southbound only), evenings and Sundays have a lot of garage runs, on a mon to sat daytime only the 134 has a reasonable number of garage trips, and they are far from regular, with some huge gaps.The sensible answer I believe is for TfL to pay for one extra bus on Uno’s half hourly 383 to either extend to PB Garage half hourly, or hourly through to Cranborne Road. If current TfL finances are a problem, I’m sure the 313 could be thinned beyond Chase Farm to pay for it.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Very interesting article, Roger.

    I am writing this as an insider who was heavily involved in securing this replacement.

    Firstly, I think Metroline considered all options to retain the route, including just retaining the weekday operation. In the end, the finances just didn’t add up. Like all operators, Metroline is suffering a driver shortage which won’t have helped the situation.

    Hertfordshire County Council (HCC), through the Intalink Partnership, engaged with operators closest to the route to determine the most effective replacement. The final timetable had to provide continuity for the considerable school movements at the St Albans end, retain a facility for Cell Barnes Lane in St Albans and ultimately to provide a level of service for Hertfordshire residents closest matching the outgoing one.

    Sullivan Buses’ proposal met these aspirations and a new timetable was accepted. Based around these school movements, a timetable with a bus up to every 30 minutes was the outcome with HCC contributing to later evening journeys and an hourly service on Sundays.

    Just a minor correction, the 398 runs every hour between South Mimms and Potters Bar, albeit on Mondays to Fridays only. HCC used ‘Bus Back Better’ funding to provide additional infill journeys.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Many thanks for that info – good to know a half-hourly service is retained. I thought the 398 was hourly but took the info from the Intalink website which unusually doesn’t seem to be up to date.

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  4. I’m surprised the 84 lasted this long, making the timing of this seem odd. Commercial routes in the Greater London region are rarely money spinners, and TFL and the counties don’t want to fund cross border routes.

    I’m still a bit annoyed about the 505 withdrawal between Chingford and Waltham Abbey. The towns are right next to each other yet there’s no way of getting between the two places by public transport. The Saturday only service was something, but it went last April without prior notice. To this day, I still haven’t seen an official announcement about it.

    I don’t think it’ll be too long until Metroline cut the 242. It doesn’t appear to be a lucrative route for commercial operation.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Sullivan’s were always the prime candidate for taking on the 84 given their South Mimms base and it was pretty certain the Potters East to New Barnet section would go. What is not clear is if Sullivan’s are taking on the Sunday Service

    I agree the 242 could end up going. It is a very messy route with much of the timetable structured to fit around Potter Bar garage trips

    On Sundays it would probably make more sense to combine the 242 and 84 but the Sunday 243 is an HCC Contract

    Sullivan’s would be well placed to operate the 242 and could probably operate a better service by focussing on the busier Waltham Cross end of the route. The Potter Bar end is pretty much just dead running with hardly any passengers

    Liked by 1 person

  6. The 84 suffers very badly from the fallout from any delays on the M25, which is why there appears to be excessive layover on the route. Whilst a bus could be saved, the affect on reliability would not be good.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Shame you had TE887, this does seem to have a poor upper deck front window. Cannot decide if it is because it still has the anti etching plastic film from when all London buses had that, or if for some reason it has become greasy, and thus dirt clings to it.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Due to Herts Intalink involvement, currently all three operators between St Albans and London Colney have joint ticketing. Presumably Sullivan Buses will simply replace Metroline in this agreement.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. I thought they might hsve reduced ther Potters Bar journeys to hourly. with an additional hourly journey London Colney to St Albans

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    1. I wish the route every success, but give it time. It’s up to the passengers now, to follow through after making such a good start.

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  10. I’ve only just seen this issue .. . . Roger is pretty correct in his sums, although the schoolday PVR is actually 8 buses. Whilst the two extra buses are specifically for the school movements at the St Albans end of the route, they ARE commercially operated . . . they do load quite well, and probably do add to the overall end financial result.

    The 84 timetable was designed to give some protection from (ir)regular traffic problems when the M25 hiccups . . . 5 PVR might have been possible, but with minimal stand times the reliability would have been poor, with AM peak delays probably knocking on for the rest of the day.

    In terms of the new timetable . . . my understanding is that Sullivan Buses will run the existing timetable (Potters Bar – St Albans obviously) in the short-term while they evaluate the loadings; hopefully this will include the school trips. That’ll probably still be +6 PVR, which is a lot in one go . . . hopefully some of the PB drivers will follow with the route.

    Route 242 is fully-commercial, although with de-minimus funding from Herts CC . . . this funding is renewable annually, and I believe overall “just” covers its operating costs; if the de-minimus funding was withdrawn, then yes, the route would close. The timetable was specifically drawn up to match revenue to costs, so 2 PVR and 2.5 drivers, based around the Waltham Cross end where the huge majority of passengers travel.

    Loadings at the Barnet end of the route have been falling for some time; effectively there are no local passengers (Oyster is not allowed), so that end of the route survives on longer-distance passengers, which simply wasn’t enough.

    As the planner responsible for the route for most of the last 20 years, I have a soft spot for Route 84, but times change, and with passengers being told for two years NOT to travel unless essential . . . I’m not entirely surprised.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. As someone who was born in Potters Bar and lived there until 1979 when I was 20, it is an area I know (or knew) very well. In the early seventies I used to catch a 134 bus home every day after getting off the school bus in High Barnet. The 134 was always a busy service on that section of route, (or at least at the time of day I used it), when the 303/A, 350/A, 716/A (and occasional 840/2?)also served the same corridor. I find it very surprising that this is the section of route that will be left unserved with the forthcoming 84 changes. Have travel patterns really changed that much over the last 40 years? Catching a train from Potters Bar station to New Barnet station is no substitute if you need to be in High Barnet, or are heading to Barnet General Hospital, as the access time to and from each station can be considerable, depending on which part of Potters Bar you live in.

    If the suggestion that positioning journeys from PB garage could not operate in service due to incompatible ticket machines is true, then the world really has gone mad. I assume that the 84 and 242 use Ticketer whereas the TfL services use Cubic(?) ETMs. In 2014 DfT committed to spending £66m on TfL / ITSO compatibility. To quote from a 2014 TfL Projects and Planning Panel report titled The Future of London’s Ticketing Technology:- “The programme has delivered the capability to allow National Rail singles, returns and season tickets to be introduced on ITSO smart cards, along with the capability to accept English National Concessionary passes electronically on buses.”

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwits76FqP31AhUSecAKHTpDALAQFnoECBMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftfl.gov.uk%2Finfo-for%2Fmedia%2Fpress-releases%2F2010%2Fapril%2Ftfl-secures-ownership-and-control-of-oyster-brand-and-ticketing-system&usg=AOvVaw37V4C_RsbNAnRklbiDZkPz

    In fact the bus part of this ITSO programme was never completed, which is why non London issued ENCTS passes do not scan on London Buses. Apart from this, I can see no valid reason why “TfL” ticket machines cannot be used to issue non TfL fares. If this really is the case, some serious questions should be asked of the TfL procurement section.

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    1. “Have travel patterns changed that much?” I’m afraid so, yes.

      TfL withdrew the last London route (383) between Potters Bar and Barnet in 2003 . . . from then the only route between the two places was Route 84.

      Metroline used TfL ticket machines (and accepted Oyster) until about 2010-ish, but the machines were unable to issue return tickets or issue more than a limited range of fares.

      INIT machines were used from 2010 to 2020, which meant that returns could be issued, as well as a bigger range of period tickets. Ticketer replaced INIT from 2020, so contactless could be enabled, as well as RTPI data.

      Route 84 did issue “London” fares in Barnet, but couldn’t accept Oyster for exactly the reasons noted above . . . TfL will always go its own way!!

      Of course it would be possible to “liven up” dead runs between Potters Bar and Barnet, but these dead runs only run for crew change purposes, and can change at any time, so notifying passengers of revised times would be difficult, and the journeys would only be at random times anyway. IF TfL decide to replace the route, then a London route with London fares would be provided . . . so no return tickets, but cheap fares and Oyster instead.

      As Roger noted above . . . the number of passengers travelling locally between Potters Bar and Barnet on his journey was less than a handful . . . apart from peak hours, that’s pretty much normal.

      It’ll all come down to money in the end . . . as most route planning will over the next few years.

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  12. Th last commercial route at Potters Bar is the 242, The other two routes are HCC contracts

    The current 242 timetable does not really work and there are constant disruptions and the timetables provides random and confusing trips. It is designed to suit Metroline rather than the passengers

    Technically there are few cancellations what they tend to do is turn buses around short or run them out of services leaving huge gaps in the schedule

    The route is probably making a loss, Passenger numbers are well down. At one time it provided a regular20 minute service now it is a shambles

    Potters Bar operated the Commercial $ HCC contracts as a separate Business unit. Potters Bar recently lost the 125 and the 84 isgoing so that will give a small increase indirect costs ie Garage costs etc.

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    1. Bob: read my post above (13 02 22 @ 8.22 am). That will inform you.

      During lockdown 1 . . . the passenger numbers on Route 242 actually held up better that those on Route 84 . . . the 242 timetable is now built around shoppers and a couple of schools. Journeys run when passengers actually want them and use them . . . not when the planners “hope” they will travel.

      It may not be pretty, but it works . . .

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      1. The recent history of the 84/242 (and adjacent routes) puts me pretty much in mind of local experience in mid Essex. Patronage has held up pretty well in the former 50s and 60s estates, elsewhere it’s hopeless, and the best is a messy compromise built around what business there is. First, and to a lesser extent Arriva and Go-Ahead, have understandably struggled with the concept, Stephensons the main local beneficiary have found it easier, but even then not as much as we might have expected. Maybe the rest are starting to catch up, or catch on. But it’s been a right muddle and make do, probably for a decade. The passenger market really doesn’t know what to make of it.

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  13. Numbers of fare paying passengers on buses have reached 78% of pre-pandemic figures, according to an industry think-tank.

    Outside of London the Average may be well down as they have a much higher number of Concessionary pass users which can account for 80% of passengers

    Bus companies part of industry think tank The Ten Per Cent Club have reported their latest passenger numbers comparing the week ending 5 February 2022 to the equivalent week in 2020, just before Covid’s impact on travel patterns. Its figures show fare paying passengers on commercial bus routes have reached an average of 78% of pre-pandemic figures, with fare payers on tendered routes at 70%.

    However, concessionary passenger numbers are considerably lower, at 57% on commercial bus routes and 50% on tendered routes.

    “In fact fare paying passengers on commercial routes haven’t shifted above an average of 78% since September 2021 so it now looks as though this might have become ‘the new normal’ for many bus companies” – Roger French

    Roger French, Secretary of the Club, said: “Bearing in mind restrictions were lifted at the end of January this is a hugely disappointing result. In fact fare paying passengers on commercial routes haven’t shifted above an average of 78% since September 2021 so it now looks as though this might have become ‘the new normal’ for many bus companies.”

    There are some wide variations to these figures, with some bus operators achieving a recovery as high as 94% while others are registering figures as low as 69%.

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  14. The apparent collapse of passenger traffic between Potters Bar and Barnet has been puzzling me and nagging away at the back of my mind. Ian Armstrong’s excellent site shows an image of a 134 printed timetable dating from January 1970 confirming that the 134 used to operate at a 12 minute headway during the peaks on the section of route between Potters Bar garage and Friern Barnet. Reassuringly this supports my memory of the Barnet to Potters Bar corridor being well used.

    On reflection I think the significant change must have arisen from local government reorganisation – firstly the creation of the GLC, with the concurrent abolition of the county of Middlesex in 1965, which saw Potters Bar being moved to the county of Hertfordshire, and secondly the 1972 Local Government Act, which amongst other things, created the new district of Hertsmere in 1974. Until then Potters Bar had been an Urban District Council with a police force that was part of the Metropolitan Police. Its employment and civic links would naturally have faced south into London. In the early seventies I remember much discussion about which other towns Potters Bar should merge with (if any!) in a new district council. The establishment of Hertsmere saw it form new bonds on an east / west axis, with an authority based in Borehamwood, but stretching westwards to Radlett and Bushey. At that time there were (if I remember correctly) precisely two public transport journeys linking Potters Bar and Borehamwood, which were peak hour extensions of the 299 (Southgate to South Mimms).

    Now, of course, the 398 provides a basically hourly service between Potters Bar and Borehamwood. It may be true that the non availability of TfL fares / Oyster had some impact on travel to Barnet, but I strongly suspect that travel patterns changed due to the local government changes I outline above. I seem to recall someone telling me that transport is a derived demand. This may be an illustration of that maxim…

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    1. Not sure over the years how rail fares and have altered. Og course they may well now also be more reliable / frequent. People used to go via High Barnet for Northern Line to get a cheaper fare in total (guess same works via 298 to Cockfosters). In a similar way the 292 between Borehamwood and Burnt Oak station used to be packed out in the peaks.

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  15. A possible solution to retaining the Potters Bar to Barnet link is the 389. It currently does 5 trips a day around Barnet

    Extending it to Potters Bar would provide a limited service. The problem again will probably be cross border ticketing

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    1. It would still cost a bus to do it, so you might as well cost that bus on the 383 and provide a better service. Would make the 399 less efficient too.

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  16. A lot of areas outside of London were covered by the Met police. This was down to an histotical anchronism. the 1868 London Coal act set up points around London where these taxes were collected. THe Met police covered up to these areas. They were marked with a marker post some of which still exist

    Whilst the London coal act was withdrawn. The Met police continued to cover these areas untill the year 2000 when they were transfered to the relevent county forces

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    1. The Metropolitan Police District predates the Coal Act. The Met used to serve a number of areas on the fringes of London not least because Middlesex didn’t have a county force but it included bits of Surrey and Hertfordshire.. Thus, when Spelthorne was formed in 1965 policing in what became part of Surry remained with the Met. It also included places like P{otters Bar and Epsom. Conversely, Romford was not within the MPD until 1965 – this meant that the bus services operated by London General exclusively in the borough were not numbered in the Bassom scheme but has route numbers prefixed by a “G”. Following establishment of LPTB in 1933 these were, in the main, re-numbered into the central buses series.

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  17. The Met area in 1829 covered an area of about 7 miles from Charing Cross. It was further extended in 1839 to cover a radius of about 15 miles from Charing cross and all of Middlesex so you are partially correct

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    1. That is very sensible. Not only is it more memorable, but should mean buses don’t get curtailed so much, which is not good on such a low frequency service.

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  18. Suggested changes to 84 and 242

    What could be sensible is to just run the 242 Waltham Cross to Brookfield Farm and extend the 84 from Potters Bar to Waltham Cross off peak hours

    It would replace the Waltham Cross to Potters Bar and Cuffly 242 trips as well as giving a service from Waltham Cross/Cheshunt . Running it only Off Peak would largely avoid the congested Walthan Cross to Cheshunt traffic and a full back could be to turn bues at the old pond if they were to get delayed

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  19. Sullivan’s

    Their South Mimms depot must be getting quite full. Will they start looking for another depot soon?

    Another possibility would be a take over or merger with Red Eagle that would be quite a nice fit

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  20. Challenging year for Go-Ahead

    Go Ahead have finally published their annual results. . The loss of the rail franchise and Covid have badly effected them and it also makes i difficult to interpreted those results. They also tend to put a rose tinted view on the bad figures so we have the Passenger numbers are recovering from Covid. Now in itself that is true. They are recovering but not to Pre Covid levels. At the moment it looked as if in my view there will be a permanent 10% to 20% drop in numbers and that will have a significant adverse impact on the financial performance

    Other impacts are the temporary Covid funding. It is still unclear as to whether this will continue . There is also the future possible bus back better funding again there i no clarity with that

    What is clear at least in my view is quite a lot of funding will be needed just to maintain services at current levels. Most as well are still operating at a slightly lower level then pre covid

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  21. Sullivan’s I would except has a 5 year business plan. If they wish to grow the business they need to expand. They can either do that organically by growing the business or by merging or taking over another company

    In my view a merger or take over with Redwing would be a nice fit. It would be almost like the old London Country North West

    Interestingly Sullivan’s have take on the TfL route 549. It is a very minor route but off of their normal territory. Maybe they are looking to expand into North East Essex

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  22. B us Back Better & Route Numbering

    Sensibly the Bus Back Better Strategy calls for the elimination of duplicate route numbering in an area but that may be easier said then done when there is no overall coordination of bus routes. The traffic Commissioners and LTA’s are notified though so a check can be made there although a change of number could end up impacting another traffic area or LTA but I guess that risk is small

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  23. i go every sat. to visit my 99 year old mum at the carehome at hadley highstone. i usually catch the 84 at the top of st. albans road at 1.50 and back again at 4.10. with the new bus will this still be possible or are the times changing as well. i need this bus route as im 69 and cant walk all the way to hadley and back to barnet.

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  24. also years ago the 263 ran through to potters bar before being sent to barnet hospital. now the 307 also terminates at the hospital and the 107 also passes along by the hospital on its way to edgware, so wouldnt it be logical to terminate one of them at potters bar.

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