Tuesday 16th December 2025
I’ve been taking a look at three bus routes on which established bus companies are currently competing to see how things are working out.
Morecambe-Carnforth: Routes 5 and 85
First up is in Lancashire where Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire began operating a couple of new hourly routes in the Morecambe area on 27th October one of which reinstated a much missed link between communities lost in County Council cut backs as long ago as 2016 while the other competes head to head with Stagecoach.
Both routes are provided on a commercial basis using two of four smart new Volvo B8RLE buses delivered to the company in September. And in a break with a long standing tradition the company has launched a new brand name – Lonsdale Buses – for its bus services.
Route 83 runs run from Brookhouse via Caton, Halton, Skerton and Torrisholme to Morecambe Bus Station. It restores the long lost link between Brookhouse and Morecambe as well as between Skerton and Morecambe which disappeared when Stagecoach diverted its route 2 via Scale Hall Lane to avoid a railway bridge when it was converted to double deck operation.
I can see the logic of this new route particularly providing restored long lost links and I hope it proves a success but I’m struggling to understand why route 85 has been introduced.
This also runs hourly on Mondays to Saturdays linking Carnforth with Morecambe via Hest Bank and Bolton le Sands, The six mile route has clusters of houses along the way via the A5105 and A6 but didn’t come across to me as a very busy corridor when I took a ride last Friday.
Pertinently buses on the 85 are timed to run five minutes in front of Stagecoach’s hourly route 5 along the same route towards Carnforth and nine minutes in front towards Morecambe. Route 5 also serves a residential area to the south east of Carnforth which the 85 misses, terminating at the station instead. Stagecoach buses also continue beyond Morecambe to Overton and also run on Sundays.
It was good to see Lancashire County Council had updated its bus stop flags and timetables along the route to reflect the new routes.
I travelled on the 13:04 departure from Morecambe on route 85. We carried six passengers, one alighting just south of Bolton le Sands and two just north with the other three travelling through to Carnforth. The Stagecoach bus on route 5 was five minutes behind us but we’d effectively cleared the road for it. I can’t see Stagecoach letting this situation continue for long without a counter challenge.
It’s pertinent to note Lonsdale Buses’ operation of tendered routes 88 and 89 between Lancaster and Knott End-on-Sea transferred over to Stagecoach from the same date with Lonsdale Buses taking over routes 18 (Lancaster East City CIrcular) from Stagecoach. I’m guessing these changes left Lonsdale Buses with two spare buses so decided to put on these routes using one on a “lost link” and the other on a swipe at Stagecoach.
It’ll be interesting to see how this develops in the coming months.
Aylesbury-Kingsbrook Estate/Armstrong Fields: Routes K1 and K2
Next up, I took a ride yesterday on a short local route in Aylesbury being contested by Red Rose Travel and Z&S Transport. And it’s baffled me to understand what’s being fought over.
Kingsbrook Estate (also known as Arnstrong Fields) is a growing new residential area on the eastern fringe of Aylesbury just a 10 minute ride from the town centre. Red Rose Travel began running an approximate hourly frequency competitively timed consistently five minutes in front of Z&S Transport’s longer established service in July.
It makes no sense at all. There’s clearly not the numbers travelling to fight over – just one person travelled on the 12:00 Red Rose departure from the railway station and got off just up the road after a three minute ride leaving just me on board to Kingsbrook. Meanwhile no one travelled on the Z&S Transport journey five minutes behind to Kingsbrook because the driver didn’t even continue to the terminus, going off on a break before the next journey.
Indeed the timetable is an odd affair with three consecutive 35 minute breaks at Kingsbrook after the 11:00/11:05 12:00/12:05 and 13:00/13:05 departures from the town centre on both companies’ routes. Here’s the Z&S Transport K1…
… and here’s the Red Rose K2….
The replication of journey times continues through to mid evening when both operators finish. Neither runs on Sundays. Both companies had been using the same K1 route number until 27th October when Red Rose renumbered its journeys to K2.
It’s all very odd, especially with all the house building going on by two major developers meaning there must be some supportive Section 106 funding sloshing around.
Residents moving into the many new houses being built…
… must take one look at the departure times at the bus stops and come away very puzzled.
This situation can’t possibly last or if both companies are determined to continue I’d suggest Red Rose (as the newcomer) retimes its journeys to run 30 minutes apart at least giving passengers a benefit from two buses an hour.
Having waited 35 minutes for the bus to return, my journey back from Kingsbrook at 12:45 with Red Rose carried two passengers and Z&S Transport arrived into the town centre five minutes behind with four on board.
Interestingly the same replication between the two operators had been applying to an area called Fairford Leys in the west of the town with both operators running competitive buses on a similarly numbered route SR1. However a couple of weeks ago Z&S Transport withdrew its route SR1 just as Red Rose had renumbered its service to just plain route 1.
Confusingly Red Rose was still displaying an out of date timetable for route SR1 on its website as well as the new route 1 when I checked last night but I was pleased to see Buckinghamshire Council had removed any reference to the SR1 (Red Rose and Z&S Transport) in Aylesbury bus station…
… as well as displaying both the K1 and K2.
Dartford-Swanley-Orpington: Route 477
And finally, I also recently had a ride on the newish Go-Ahead operated route 477 between Orpington and Dartford under its new Kent Country branding introduced after Arriva’s withdrawal at the end of October. It was impressive to see 15 passengers travel on the 10:45 from Orpington with only two making local journeys home from Orpington, eight travelling across Swanley (to Hextable and mostly Dartford itself) with five between Swanley and Dartford on the contested section of route with Go-Bus.
However, unlike the K1 and K2 in Aylesbury, I see the timetables from both companies now make for a sensible arrangement with Go-Bus’s half hourly journeys slotted almost exactly in between Kent Country’s hourly timetable and both operators are accepting each other’s return and weekly tickets.
I reckon it’s as close as you can get in the deregulated era to a new ‘jointly operated route’ so have added it to my Compendium of Jointly Operated Routes which otherwise has been getting shorter and shorter.
It was also great to see a supply of timetable leaflets on board the bus in its green moquette too.
It’s another development which will be interesting to watch into 2026 and in particulart to see where the next development of the Kent Country branding will be.
Roger French
Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThS
BusAndTrainUser 
News today that the TeesFlex DRT buses will end next year.
A shame, as people often said they couldn’t book a journey, so I think it’s more a case of being un- user friendly than lack of passengers.
LikeLiked by 1 person
With 5 years of data to show the most popular passenger flows, replacing Tees Flex with the proposed fixed routes is a sensible development.
LikeLike
Was just going to post this. Lengthy write up of the Council meeting in the Northern Echo revealing that replacing it with two fixed routes will be thirds (!) cheaper.
LikeLike
‘Station’ should be ‘situation’ as in ‘I can’t see Stagecoach letting this station continue for long without a counter challenge.’
LikeLike
Thanks for spotting that; now corrected.
LikeLike
Interesting blog – thanks Roger. I agree about the 85, I just don’t see the point if it just duplicates the 5. I’ve never found the 5 particularly busy either so it’ll be interesting to see how long the two routes last before one of them gives up.
LikeLike
Given the demographics of the area neiher
would look yo be commercially viable
LikeLike
I’m glad that at least the two 477 operators are co-operating to provide a sensible combined service. I do wonder if this is a product of the respective bus managers actually talking to one another or, perhaps, was an initiative by KCC officers.
It is a pity that only the ‘Kent Country’ 477 calls at Swanley station – and then not at times offering good rail connections in either direction. Swanley station is unusual in that whichever exit you leave by there is a bus stop within a short walk – but in both cases it is only to an hourly service, a sad reflection on the thought that rail and bus managers give to the possibility of growing the overall public transport market. It seems that, despite glowing mission statements etc., it is left to the passengers themselves to ‘Put the Passenger First’ So the 477 is left mainly with local travel for shopping etc..
I suspect the only person really pleased to read your first two examples will be the man from the MMC who wrote some years ago in Buses magazine, extolling the benefits of buses competing as closely as possible, to give passengers real options to choose from!
Many thanks for another very readable and informative blog.
LikeLike
I understand the GoBus 477 is being extended to Swanley station from January.
Terence Uden
LikeLike
carousel introducing route 458 between Slough & Uxbridge competing with First 3. Go Ahead seem to be competing by stealth with forays to weaken another operator and then swoop and take over. Southampton, Bournemouth, High Wycombe and Cornwall springbto
mind. Seems deliberate policy at the moment.
LikeLike
I’m trying to work out if they’ve walked back from competing with Reading Transport as much though. They’ve taken a 36 out each hour, diverted the 127 away from the main road and thinned their Slough to Windsor frequency, specifically referring to “our friends at Reading Transport” providing 4 BPH on that road.
LikeLike
It seems a mixed picture regarding competition between Carousel and Reading Buses. Carousel are also coming off the 52, which competes with Thames Valley between Maidenhead and Holyport, and the Saturday service on 7A, referring to alternative buses from ‘our friends at Thames Valley Buses’. On the other hand, Carousel are very coy about the reason for the frequency reduction on 36 ‘following the recent introduction of another route in the area’, are diverting the 37 via St Marks Hospital in line with TV 20 and introducing a Saturday service on 127 in competition with TV’s existing supported Saturday-only service on 127, which follows a much less direct route. The extension of 15 from Burnham to Maidenhead might also be said to be competition for TV 53 and 704, although it is only on 7th December that First 6 was withdrawn over that section as a consequence of the introduction of TV 704.
Carousel certainly seem to be aiming at First though, as the 458 will run via Trelawney Avenue in Langley, competing with First 7/7X, while the 103 journeys no longer serving Windsor will instead run to Langley Axis Park, via First 3 and 7/X. But then again, Carousel are withdrawing the extra shorts to Wexham Park Hospital on 106 (introduced last August), possibly in response to First’s extension of 6 from Wexham Court to the hospital.
Overall, the pace of change seems to be very fast, with both Carousel and Thames Valley introducing new links and First also making some improvements, though how long the area can continue to support three operators is open to question.
LikeLike
I’m suspicious about the concept that people in government or County Councils know better how to run buses than bus operators do. But I am strongly opposed to this kind of damaging on street competition, which the operators must know is very short term and probably damages the bus market in the (not that) long term.
It is quite inevitable that at least larger operators will then try and crowd out the smaller ones by running buses five minutes in front of theirs! This looks ludicrous and amateurish.
LikeLike
I’m not aware of government or county councils running buses in Britain.
The closest I can think of are bus companies owned by local councils – Lothian, Blackpool, Cardiff, Nottingham and Reading all come to mind (and that’s not a complete list)
Malc M
LikeLike
Lonsdale Buses’ 83 service came about at least partly due to the local Bus Users’ Group, who when approached by the company to ask if we were aware of any gaps in the network that needed filling suggested it, although not for a minute did we expect an hourly frequency!
The 85 is a different matter entirely and is a classic example of wasteful competition. It could easily have been timed to provide a half-hourly frequency between Carnforth and Morecambe.
Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancs has been busy introducing new BSIP services in the north of its area as well as absorbing the Preston and Chorley operations of Merseyside & South Lancs, but when it gets round to it I can’t see the 85 being left to continue unchallenged.
Jim Davies
Lancaster Bus Users’ Group
LikeLiked by 1 person
I do remember a bus route in Stockport back in the day that had 2 competing companies operating the route [one was GM Buses, forgotten the other company], both companies had an hourly frequency, however departures was something like 00 & 05, then a 55 minute wait for the next bus, rather than every 30 minutes, which i thought was barmy.
SM
LikeLike
Another route to consider for the jointly operated list is Hanley – Abbey Hulton service 5 in Stoke on Trent.
A three bus requirement, with two coming from D&G and one from Scraggs. Departures are coordinated to an even 15 minutes, Scraggs are advertised on D&G’s timetable and tickets are inter-accepted.
LikeLike
Thanks for that.
LikeLike
further to Rick Townend’s comment, Go coach is extending their 477 to Swanley Station from 3rd January. They are also starting a new route 4 from Sevenoaks to Tonbridge. Competition for Arriva route 402?
Brian Willson, Orpington
LikeLike
Maybe a trip to St Albans and Hatfield is called for as there is surprisingly extensive on road competition there (or at least multiple operators on the same stretches of route). The Hatfield, Luton and London Colney roads all have more than one operator. You could check out Uno’s new electric buses at the same time, purchased thanks to all that Zebra money Arriva decided it didn’t want.
LikeLike
I always thought that Red Rose and Z & S were loosely associated, but clearly not!
Steve
LikeLike
Red Rose and Red Eagle are owned by different members of the same family; Redline is owned by distant members of the same family; Z & S are completely separate, as are Star Travel.
I ‘think’ that is correct … but even the details at Companies House aren’t over-clear.
LikeLike
I find that very strange too as both companies seem to operate the 100 between Aylesbury and Milton Keynes jointly
Richard
LikeLike
a bus running five mins from another does mean if you are early for one you get a choice , if you are a bit late at least there is another in a minute
JBC Prestatyn
LikeLike
Typo alert: one of your long lost links appears to be to Morevambe!
LikeLike
Many thanks; now updated.
LikeLike
Zero 2 Bus Museum
Due to open next spring now, Being rum by the previous owners of Ensign Bus
Zero2 Bus Museum
LikeLike
UNO who have been struggling to run the 242 to time are changing the route from January basically cutting out the detour to the Forum
Personally I am not convinced this route is viable or sensible
LikeLike
So what would you change? I’d personally prefer it go to Barnet instead of Hatfield or at least have far better connections with the 243, the route is too long but I ride it as far as Potters Bar fairly regularly, it carries more than you think. Always people using it in Goffs Oak and Cuffley. Decent usage at Brookfield too. Seems to carry students I’ve noticed. Commercial, no? But what do you expect for an hourly service in an area that is basically an extension of London! It needs to be at least half hourly at least as far as Cuffley to time with the trains to make an impact.
There needs to be much more priority in Cheshunt too, while the new road through Waltham Cross should’ve been made to be bus only in the daytime. I think in the Waltham Cross, Cheshunt, Potters Bar area, improvements will be limited unless the 3 counties start working together on the buses. Same with a continued lack of any Waltham Abbey-Chingford service, even an hourly extension of TFL routes 215 and 317 would be better than what we have now. If anything isn’t sensible, it’s the county boundaries in this area being used to dictate the bus network. Ideally more routes, TFL or not, would run beyond Waltham Cross with Brookfield being a bus station for the wider area.
Aaron
LikeLike
I don’t think the current 242 in its current form is a good use of resource. It appears to be a commercial service and presumably runs to Hatfield as UNOs depot is there, Demand between Potters Bar and Hatfield id very limited and in Hatfield itself lots of other routes server the area
Probably the focus of the 242 needs to be in the Cheshunt/Waltham Cross area
LikeLike
I’m assuming Uno sees a potential student base from this area and from neighbouring parts of North London, time will tell. One bus I used at 6:50pm coming back from Potters Bar a few months appears to confirm this to an extent as a good 20 young people were on board and many were still on the bus when I left it in Cheshunt. Enough to justify the double decker. I’m just grateful to have a clockface bus to Cuffley and Potters Bar again as it was such a gap in the network until last year. Not losing it again, that’s for sure and from satellite images, you can see infill development happening everywhere around here, that the bus will hopefully only improve from here.
Punctuality has to improve though, but an hourly service won’t win over many who can drive instead. Big part of why I support Crews Hill’s development, as the services will have to vastly improve then.
Aaron
LikeLike
Central Connect have now published the new timetables
The strange new serve from Broxbourne to Harlow seems to be mainly positioning journeys for HL1 avoiding the need to run it out of service to and from Harlow
I can only assume that at lunch time there are still out of service trips to change the driver over., Give that perhaps running a bus in service only adds about 10 minutes it might be sensible to run it in service unless they have another way of changing the driver over
LikeLike
Lovely illegal red light at the front of the bus on the destination display. Police made South Yorkshire PTE remove red blinds from all of their Fastline Metrobuses for exactly that reason when they were introduced.
LikeLike
Roger is quite correct in respect of the K1/K2 competition. The service started off as the K1 and titled the Kingsbrook Flyer operated by Z & S using a suitably branded Enviro 200 complete with graphics for David Wilson homes, so it can be assumed it was developer funded.
This has been going for a number of years and in the number of observations I have seen of it, 4 passengers would indicate a very busy journey! Most daytime journeys were 1 or none! I admit I very seldom observed a more peak hour service, although one that was busier was principally school pupils.
Kingsbrook is a substantial development, much of which is predictably expensive private owned homes and obviously a percentage of affordable homes also. But in the time the service(s) have been running it can only be assumed most of the inhabitants prefer to use other forms of transport.
In addition what Roger may have been unaware of, there is actually on the main road through the estate an extra bus per hour in the shape of the Arriva X4/X14
LikeLike