Superloop reaches the Thames

Sunday 25th February 2024

It’s the London Borough of Bexley’s residents’ turn to enjoy the delights of TfL’s Superloop limited stop ‘express’ buses now traversing their home patch.

New route SL3 began yesterday linking Bromley, Sidcup and Bexleyheath with Thamesmead (just over the border in the Borough of Greenwich).

It brings the metaphorical clockface Superloop network round from 5pm to 3pm where it meets the River Thames which obviously acts as a barrier to riding a complete circuit around London. However, those who love a challenge can now ride Superloop routes from Thamesmead all the (clockwise) way round to Walthamstow, and when the SL2 begins, onwards from Walthamstow down to North Woolwich where you’ll get the closest you will ever do to completing a full round London Superloop loop.

Here’s the map showing the new SL3’s route as originally proposed. This being TfL, there’s no post consultation map available now the route’s been introduced as that would be far too sensible and helpful for potential passengers.

From Bromley North the route parallels the all stops 269 via Chislehurst and Sidcup to Bexleyheath then it follows the B11 via Bexleyheath railway station to Abbey Wood (thankfully missing out that route’s full circuit around Lodge Hill and Okehampton Crescent – see bottom centre of map below) before heading straight to the ‘town centre’ of Thamesmead using the previously bus-less northern section of Carlyle Road…

… rather than taking a circuit east or west of this large residential area as all other bus routes do so they can get closer to where people live.

Map with kind permission of Mike Harris – see website.

Looking at the above extract from Mike Harris’s excellent map you might wonder why the route doesn’t also use Knee Hill which would provide a more direct route south of Abbey Wood station…

… but I suspect TfL’s cautious route planners considered it too narrow with too many trees.

But ironically New Road, which the SL3 uses (along with the 301 and B11) instead, is also narrow, and comes with the added frustration of parked cars.

As with the SL5 between Croydon and Bromley, TfL are again introducing a new route without any compensating reductions in parallel routes, so it’s a straight increase of a substantial 15 vehicles. That works out to a lot of £1.75 bus fares to attract to make the service viable.

As you can see, the vehicles are New Routemasters too, made available from recent cut backs on other routes.

Only in London would you find buses fitted with three doors and two staircases operating express limited stop bus routes. It wasn’t exactly what the buses were designed for, but that’s what happens when a high profile politician interferes with the design of buses and another one wants to make an impact weeks before an election.

As with the SL5, the south western end of the route between Bromley, Chislehurst, Sidcup and Bexley was once the preserve of half hourly Green Line route 725 on its way from Gravesend to Windsor before it was joined by a sister route 726 to Heathrow.

The new SL3 runs every 12 minutes (15 minutes evenings and Sundays) with a span of day from 05:00 to 01:30. It’s operated from Stagecoach’s garage in Bromley so the first four departures from Thamesmead between 05:00 and 06:00 see buses run out of service from the garage all the way to the route’s northern terminus.

Peak hour journeys are given an end to end journey time of up to 83 minutes reducing to an hour during the off-peak and as little as 47 minutes late at night and in the early hours, so it’s somewhat misplaced optimism for the bus stop display at Thamesmead to promote a 46 minutes end-to-end journey time.

I took a ride up and down the route yesterday morning to get a feel for how it’ll pan out.

Sometimes it’s all about perception when it comes to making a bus route attractive.

Despite there being just 13 intermediate bus stops on the 14 mile route, thanks to the nature of the roads used by SL3 buses, it feels you’re not getting anywhere very quickly. The average speed for an hour’s off peak journey is 14 mph. My late morning return journey back from Thamesmead took 72 minutes making for an average speed of around 12 mph. Thats not what I’d call “express”. I also noticed some significant gaps (25-30 minutes) in headway during the day.

It’s not helped by two sets of roadworks – Thames Water’s emergency sewer works – with temporary traffic lights in Chislehurst…

…. and gas repair works in Penhill Road, Bexleyheath necessitating two different routes (northbound and southbound) due to a temporary one-way traffic order in place.

Thamesmead bound journeys are using Penhill Road and then instead of Blendon Road are accessing the A2 to at least get up some speed for a a short stretch …

… before coming off on to Arbuthnot Lane used by route 269 into Bexleyheath.

Map with kind permission of Mike Harris – see website.

Bromley bound journeys are turning into Parkhill Road and Hurst Road following the 269 route, almost touching Bexley Village, as buses can’t head south down Penhill Road. The earlier map (when the SL3 was out for consultation) showed buses using Blendon Road (as the 132 does) to access Penhill Road.

As an indication of the frustration of being an “express” in just name, we’d followed that 269 in the above photo of the roadworks in Chislehurst from Bromley all the way to Sidcup without being able to overtake it.

Yesterday’s late morning Saturday shopping traffic also made for slow progress approaching Bexleyheath (particularly from Thamesmead).

Traffic queuing towards Bexleyheath town centre from Avenue Road where the station is located.

It took 12 minutes to travel between Bexleyheath station and library, a distance of just three quarters of a mile making for a speed of 3.75 mph on that section. And then we did a small loop to serve the library bus stop – which buses in both directions do, just to keep passengers waiting there on their toes.

I noticed there wasn’t such comprehensive coverage of Superloop roundels on the tops of bus shelters this time, and many bus stops didn’t have the usual first few days presence of Superloop Ambassadors.

One surprise was to find usb sockets added to the rear of the seats in the New Routemasters, which is a welcome addition although I’m not sure what Thomas Heatherwick thinks of their rather crude placing ….

… and all the buses in use were dressed in their Superloop branding.

The SL3 meets the SL5 in Bromley but interchange is only possible at Bromley North station, and even there, not at the same bus stop, for continuing journeys in the same direction.

The SL3 is not my favourite Superloop segment and it’ll be interesting to see how it performs compared to its siblings, particularly once the current roadworks are completed.

I’m not convinced it’s the best use of an investment of 15 additional buses.

Roger French

Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThS with occasional Su extras, including today.

Comments on today’s blog are welcome but please keep them relevant to the blog topic, avoid personal insults and add your name (or an identifier). Thank you.

40 thoughts on “Superloop reaches the Thames

  1. I agree not the best we took extra 30 mins on my trip from Bromley due to breakdown of booked service resulting in extra pass at al stops plus heavy traffic plus the road works the two buses following arr Thamesmead verdorr our bus turned and löaded for rtn journey I think SL1 is and will be most successful of new routes

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  2. Further proof that it would have been more accurate to call Superloop “Limited stop” rather than “Express”. (I live at the end of the North Circular section of SL2 so I speak from experience!). Graham L.

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    1. I really think that’s splitting hairs. It’s not as though there is either a dictionary definition distinction nor a marked difference between them in the public’s mind.

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  3. …If it had gone on to Woolwich that would have been the fastest part of the journey and might have dragged the average speed up a little!

    I would have liked it going on to North Greenwich like a fast 472 but I guess that really is crayonista land!

    Mackay.

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  4. The timetabled time is not too bad – only taking a few minutes more for each section between station connections (Bromley-Chislehurst-Sidcup-Bexleyheath-Abbeywood) that Google-Maps has for car journeys.

    But that’s without the roadworks issue. Might you consider a blog, or a presentation about this issue? – I saw that was a point in your excellent one about running a successful bus company – but you didn’t go into what could be done about it, or what was being done about it (nothing, as far as I can see). One of the triumphs of bus privatisation is that – in my experience – buses not turning up on time is now very rarely due to any malfunction of the bus itself, so that (apart from staff shortage – hopefully a temporary issue) roadworks appears now to be the major factor, and they can strike anywhere and any time, with little or no notice, throwing a whole route or routes into chaos. It is particularly disastrous for anyone ‘downwind’ of thr roadworks, who may have hopes of a connection to another route or to a train completely dashed. Generally no information is provided at stops.

    The problem is worse for buses (which need to stick to the given route if they can) than for goods vehicles or car-drivers, all of whom will divert if they know how to do so. Were the roadworks at Chislehurst and Bexleyheath made worse for the buses due to other traffic not being taken away from the area?

    Re the SL itself, I’m a bit surprised at the western terminus not beeing at Bromley South; one of the benefits of Superloop is to connect with the radial routes, and to miss out Bromley South seems a missed opportunity. At the North end, I believe there was once a bus on the Woolwch ferry – if that is not now possible, I suppose the circle could be completed with trains/DLR. Maybe the idea for the link to be the proposed Beckton-Thamesmead DLR extension

    Many thanks for reporting on this.

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      1. Big mistake tfl made in the180 to North Greenwich instead of Lewisham. This bus would have been better to go from Thamesmead through Belvedere Erith and Northumberland Heath to avoid the hill take the 229 route and still go past Abbey Wood Station. And go through Sidcup.

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    1. I am fairly confident that there has never been a regular bus service using the Woolwich Ferry as part of the route – unless you count the ‘London River Tour’ for a year or two from 1951, with ‘Private Hire’ RF buses (photo – not mine – at https://in.pinterest.com/pin/720224165393839422/ )

      The idea of a timetabled service getting caught in the unpredictable traffic queues either side of the ferry, quite apart from the questionable reliability of the ferry in recent years, does not seem practical.

      Feeding in to Woolwich town centre for connections with the DLR may well be a good idea, Abbey Wood provides an interchange with the Elizabeth Line that’s closer to points south-east, and there’s the link for Thamesmead residents to points south. Which would have been the most useful option for this route will depend on where you live…

      Public transport plans for Thamesmead have existed in several times since the whole Thamesmead development was thought of – from the Underground’s Fleet Line (which ended up as the Jubilee Line and never came to Thamesmead), the Greenwich Waterfront Transit scheme which was first floated in the late 90s and finally cancelled in 2009 (I believe there’s a revised version of this floating around now), DLR extensions, road bridges and so on.

      The local news blog / site ‘from the murky depths’ (not me) – https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk/ may be worth a look – the writer/s are fairly good on transport topics in the area.

      CatfordCat

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  5. I think the launch day could have gone a lot better than it seems to have. I headed to Bromley North for an early afternoon trip and the nominal journey time to Thamesmead displayed on the bus stop was quite understated, setting poor expectations when we took 50% longer. A good number of southbound services were being terminated at Sidcup or Chislehurst indicative of timetabling problems.

    There were times when the driver seemed unsure which way to turn, so either route learning was not as effective as planned or some wayfinder signs were needed. On the return journey, the driver got lost twice and we ended up missing Bexleyheath Station and Lion Rd stops. On the run to Sidcup, a wrong turn found us about to enter the Penhill Rd one-way section again. I acted as banksman to help the bus turn round.

    Will try it again during the week to see if these wrinkles have been addressed.

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  6. These routes do need to be referred to as “limited stop” rather than express, and in the case of SL3, the teething problems were still evident early this morning (Sunday). Hesitant Drivers, late running in spite of no traffic and stopping at non-Superloop stops if Someone put their arm out! As the route is way out of any area Bromley Garage has worked in years, I was surprised not to see some direction indicators on lamp posts.

    Suspect most problems are therefore simply as a result of the haste and speed of introduction, lightning by TfL’s usual pace and clearly politically motivated. To find at least FORTY extra Drivers for this route alone in the present climate has surely only been achieved by Agency staff, and it shows.

    Whilst the term “Superloop” has been adopted, I don’t think it was the intention to exactly form a complete loop (apart from the obvious river crossing), so it may have been better to have revived the “Superbus” name as proposed for limited stop cross London services in the 1970s. There are clearly other corridors that could benefit from limited stop operation as shown with the former 607 and X68. Whilst the final network is basically a loop, please let it grow some more. We need faster buses!

    Although running non-stop from Sidcup Station to Bexleyheath Library, it otherwise mirrors the 269. I suspect it will be the latter that will see a quiet service reduction perhaps a little later down the line when the dust has settled (and elections over), as may other parallel services on other SL corridors. But, as with all SL routes, I am sure will be ultimately, and hopefully, successful merely on the perception of speed and new journey opportunities.

    Terence Uden

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  7. @Terence Uden – Bromley garage did operate as far as Bexleyheath on the 269 until 2018, although the section beyond to Thamesmead will be new territory.

    When Superloop was first announced, 11 months ago, the proposal was for the “X269” (as it was referred to then) to run from Bromley to Bexleyheath. The extension onwards to Thamesmead was added as the proposals developed further. Interestingly, Thamesmead was linked to Bromley for a couple of years during the mid-1980s by Green Line 725.

    @Roger – interesting points about both the use of New Routemasters and the effect of traffic congestion.

    New Routemasters were probably just a matter of expediency. They were available, needing to be found something useful to do, and supplying them to Stagecoach avoided the need for Stagecoach to source suitable vehicles from within their own fleet. I think the contract is for less than a year, as the SL3 is being retendered with route 269 for which the current contract expires in January next year. Will be interesting to see whether the New Routemasters stay or whether they are replaced with zero-emission vehicles.

    Traffic congestion illustrates what may be missing from Superloop – bus priority. I noticed this a few weeks ago when trying out route SL10, and making slow progress through Kingsbury due to traffic.
    I wonder whether we may see proposals for bus priority measures at some point in future, to help Superloop fulfil its potential more effectively (oh, silly me, introducing bus priority is a “war on motorists” and we can’t have that, can we!)

    Malc M

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    1. An awful lot of staff have come and gone since then, plus, and I am sure you will correct me as always, single route rosters had come to TB by then and the many years of a common rota long gone. Thus few staff familiar with the area.

      Terence Uden

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  8. Go-Ahead chief denies reports the UK’s largest rail operator is up for sale

    Go-Ahead Group’s chief executive has denied reports that the UK’s largest rail operator could be up for sale as part of a wider sell-off by its pension fund owner.

    The Sunday Times reported that the Canadian pension fund OPTrust had brought in advisers and was looking to offload public transport interests including Go-Ahead.

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  9. I can confirm that Go Ahead ultimate owners the institutional investors OPTrust have brought in advisers and are looking to explore the possibility of offloading its public transport interests including Go-Ahead in the UK after just 18 months after discussing it with a Canadian broker earlier.

    Given the perilous state of Mobico PLC who have been unable to declare thier final financial results due to accounting irregularities & that the West Midlands Combined Authority led by Andy Street CBE have now bought National Express West Midlands garages from them to improve the financial liquidity at West Midlands Travel Limited it is looking to be an interesting time ahead for the bus industry

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    1. The story on the appointment of RBC and Macquarrie by OPTrust was posted by the Times on Saturday, and then the Sunday Times.

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      1. The story may have run in certain parts of the media & whether you believe what you read in the press is a matter for your own conclusions I certainly don’t given what is written about Andy Street CBE from my own experience.

        I was simply confirming to Roger that having taken part in a conference call at 2am in the morning with a number of North American brokers that the story was actually true & brokers in Canada have been briefed about an institutional sale.

        Attacks & comments such as yours & made ANONYMOUSLY on individuals such as myself have NO place on Rogers excellent forum & I strongly advise that you should consider the tone of your comments made against individuals before posting ANONYMOUSLY again.

        I would like to personally thank Roger for continuing to provide us with a truly excellent blog.

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        1. To illustrate my point on whether you believe what is published and reported in the press ; apologies to Roger for being off topic on Superloop; on Sunday Afternoon I got NXWM Scannia 1948 from Moor Street which was on the 13:36 Service 2 to Spark Hill……..

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        2. Mr Jones

          I made no comment on the National Express story nor on Andy Street.

          More pertinently, I made no attack on you. I did not question the voracity of the information, nor made any reference in any manner to yourself. Your comments are wholly without foundation.

          I merely stated that the stories had been in the press. That is ALL.

          Giles

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          1. It had already been posted on February 25th at 11:04pm that the story was being reported by Times Newspapers & I was simply confirming the story was in effect correct & mentioned that news stories sometimes cannot confiirmed as with my previous experiences so your post on February 26th at 9.02pm was for exactly what ?…………..

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            1. Mr Jones

              The post at 11.04pm on 25/02 stated it was in the Sunday Times.
              I was stating it was in BOTH Times newspapers and that it had been posted on the Saturday by The Times.

              Now please highlight in my post where I personally attacked you…

              Giles

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  10. Given the routings and the mileage would longer term changing to single decks and combining the Croydon-Bromley route to give a Croydon – Thamesmead service , noting that traffic congestion could impact but a good frequency should allow for turnbacks where needed without being inconvenient
    J B C Prestatyn

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    1. There was NO need for your post of February 26th at 9.02pm it was simply to make a childish point against myself and my character as someone who is noted to come from a rough Brummie inner city working class background. Your actions speak for themselves & quite simply need NO further comment from myself on the matter.

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      1. Mr Jones

        You have failed to acknowledge – you were not mentioned. Your character was not questioned. There was no attack on you – again, I reiterate, please highlight where I have criticised you.

        Giles

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        1. There was NO need for your post of February 26th at 9.02pm it was simply to make a childish point against myself and my character as someone who is noted to come from a rough Brummie inner city working class backgroun

          Your actions speak for themselves & quite simply need NO further comment from myself on the matter.

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          1. Mr Jones

            As I’ve explained ad nauseum, that my original post of 26/02 was in response to the original 25/02 where the original poster stated it was posted in the Sunday Times. I was highlighting that it had been posted earlier in The Times (online).

            I did not refer to YOUR post as I wasn’t responding to YOUR post. I have not made any comment on your personal circumstances. In the nicest possible way, your background is of no interest to me.

            I have afforded you the opportunity to highlight which of the words in my single line comment constitute a personal attack on you. You have not done so, and for good reason. I didn’t refer to you, and have not attacked you.

            I’m sorry that you feel the way you do.

            Giles

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            1. There was NO need for your post of February 26th at 9.02pm it was simply to make a childish point against myself and my character as someone who is noted to come from a rough Brummie inner city working class background. Your actions speak for themselves & quite simply need NO further comment from myself on the matte

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            2. I will make one FINAL comment on this matter.

              There was absolutely no need for your comment which added nothing to the discussion and was simply there to belittle the constructive points I had made in regard to the future direction of Go Ahead.

              It is very sad on such excellent blog which I enjoy so much & fully respect the hard work Roger does to create such an elective piece of social media that individuals sometimes use the platform to deride others of differing backgrounds such as my own for thier own personal galn for the purpose of one upmanship.

              As hard 6ft 1inch & 16 stone Brummie accountant born & bought up in the Inner city I will quite simply defend myself & my PROUD background from others who have thier own self serving agenda.

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  11. Is this the first London bus route to be inaugurated (on its first day) with diversions already in force? We must assume the Proposals map is correct and Blendon Road shall be used when the road closure is removed. I remember my early use of Blendon Road (1988 when the Bexleybus scheme was launched) – traversing the road in hired-in vehicles from Kingston upon Hull Corporation Transport on Route 132. The delights of Boroline Maidstone sadly denied us now!

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    1. The roadworks were removed the other day (we started to notice the B14 was on time again) and a ride on the SL3 both ways today confirmed that they are running the same split route (Penhill + A2 northbound; Parkhill + Hurst southbound) as on launch day. I think it was said in some TfL document that the buses couldn’t run via Blendon and Penhill Roads southbound because they are unable to make a turn (I assume they would come too far over the middle of the road on Penhill) but that they also wouldn’t stop in Bexley Village as that would mean a service in one direction only.
      Max

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  12. I caught an SL5 from Bromley North Station to East Croydon Station on Saturday afternoon, which had passengers standing right up to the drivers cab for the entire journey, which is unlikely to attract new users. A solution to the overhanging trees needs to be found, to allow double deck operation of all Superloop routes, given the relatively low seating capacity of London single deck buses.
    The SL3 deviation via New Road and Bexleyheath Library gives the perception of a slow journey, making it a less attractive offer. The perception of journey times, rather than the actuality often affects a passengers view of an attractive journey choice.
    GG

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  13. On Saturday, I travelled on a bus from Bromley North at about 11:30 which was terminating at Bexleyheath Station.
    Then on Sunday, I travelled on a bus from Bromley North which was diverted [as mentioned above] via the A2 in Bexley. It was then diverted between Bexleyheath and Abbey Wood via Bostall Hill and McLeod Road due to a fallen tree in New Road. The diversion was signed for the drivers.

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  14. Shame they couldn’t have revived the “Red Arrow” or “Red Express” brands for these services. Even better “Green Line” with the buses painted in “environmental” green. What a pity the LTB allowed the rights to that name to pass to LCBS in 1970 and has ended up with Arriva.

    Kim R

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  15. Cant call them Green Line, Arriva own the rights to the name hence Reading rebranding their London express last year

    PSD

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  16. I tried to travel on the 10.07 SL3 from Thamesmead yesterday (4th March) south to Chislehurst. It didn’t run and neither did the 10.19. The 10.31 departed on time (not a NBL) and to be fair all was well until Sidcup when the dreaded Thames Water struck again. On the way I saw bunching in the other direction and at least one bus short turned at Abbey Wood. This chronic incapacity of the road space and it’s misuse, abuse and overuse by motorists, parking vans and people just digging it up willy-nilly has got to be addressed otherwise bus services in London which on paper are, let’s face it, brilliant compared to outside the city are going to face serious challenges. Aside from all the sniping about electoral politics the SL routes are a brave attempt to give non-car owners something motorists take for granted (to the detriment of our environment). I really hope they thrive they would be for the benefit of all in London.
    MikeC

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