Bus times driven by AI

Thursday 4th January 2024

My very first work experience as a fresh faced management trainee almost fifty years ago was a placement in the schedules office at Belle Isle bus depot in Wakefield where four members of staff, including the long experienced Harry and Ted, compiled vehicle workings and staff duties for West Riding and Yorkshire Woollen’s six depots across West Yorkshire as well as one in Selby, North Yorkshire.

I remember spending hours learning the skill of drawing lines on huge graph sheets, obviously in pencil so mistakes could be easily corrected, showing how timetables are carved up into vehicle workings and from those then trying my hand at compiling the most efficient duties which drivers and conductors would work having been acceptable by their union representatives as meeting agreed practices.

It was often said profits were made or lost in a bus company’s schedules office such were the implications of tracing out those lines in the most realistic but cost effective way fo the business.

Over the last fifty years that tried and tested process of resource utilisation has seen many developments, not least in recent decades the use of computer software removing the laborious and time consuming ‘first cut’ of bus workings and duties enabling skilled schedule staff to spend their limited time fine tuning the resultant product into what long experience tells them will make for a workable set of duties by drivers.

More recently some Bus Groups saw further potential to streamline the process by centralising schedules production for all their operations across the entire country, but this risks missing vital local knowledge of what is and isn’t achievable, whether it be specific peak hour traffic conditions, school requirements, meal break or spreadover duty arrangements for staff or a hundred and one other idiosyncrasies often only known to those close to the action.

Now, the latest development being championed by First Bus, and it seems also used by Stagecoach, is to embrace the world of ‘Artificial Intelligence’ to analyse the wealth of data now captured every hour about on the road punctuality performance to compile timetables, schedules and duties which reflect varying traffic conditions.

It was reported in the trade press just before Christmas First Bus is spending £4.5 million with a company called Prospective – “we enable fleet operators, infrastructure managers and asset owners to run their operations in sync with the city around them” or as First explains “the new system will mean that local teams can be more agile with frequent, subtle changes to ensure timetables remain accurate throughout the year”.

It’s long been a practice in the industry to allow additional running time across peak hours to counteract delays caused by traffic congestion, not least since the Traffic Commissioners began taking a keen interest with roadside monitoring of how services were performing and imposing significant penalties for failings.

It’s often the case an extra bus, or more, are required at peak times to deliver the same frequency timetable as applies during the daytime or conversely, the frequency may be reduced to save deploying costly resources. London is a classic example of this with significant differentiations in running times to be found in the Capital’s bus schedules and extra vehicle/s slotted in or, more likely over the last couple of years, judicious frequency reductions on many routes to save costs.

However, in London most bus routes don’t have an officially published timetable which passengers can consult and instead work on the provision of a ‘turn-up-and-go’ headway across the day. Passengers are generally oblivious to any tweaks in journey times and/or the inclusion of more buses in the schedule to reflect traffic conditions.

This is not how things are working out as First Bus deploys Prospective’s AI technology. The result of this “cutting edge technology” might be “more punctual, reliable and comfortable bus services” (as per the above quote) but the reality for passengers is a more complicated, difficult to remember and even off-putting timetable with none of the simplicity or attractiveness of a regular frequency.

Take for example route 4, the long established route between Acomb and York city centre once famous for hosting that ‘cutting edge technology’ the ‘ftr’ bus back in 2006.

Instead of a timetable providing a 15 minute frequency with easy to remember departures, whether they be 00, 15, 30 and 45 or 10, 25, 40, 55 etc etc, passengers are now faced with a multiplicity of different timings not only at peak times, but throughout the day.

The differences may only be a matter of two to three minutes but the result is a confusing presentation of varied times along the route. Here’s an extract from the online timetable on the First Bus website (which unhelpfully is currently only displaying times up to this Saturday 6th January), and just to add to the complicated format, displays 12 digit “stop codes” for each timing point with no explanation of what they’re there for.

As you can see, instead of an even 15 minute departure, the time interval in minutes between the ten journeys shown above from Acomb is 16-16-18-18-15-15-15-17-18 with the length of journey into York’s Clifford Street varying as 38-38-35-35-35-35-34-34-34-34 minutes.

The next extract below continues this trend as the afternoon beckons with gaps between journeys inexplicably varying inconsistently as 15-16-15-18-15-15-15-15-17 minutes with journey times reducing consistently from 34 to 33 to 32 minutes.

As the afternoon wears on the trends continue with more inconsistent headway intervals and the journey time reducing to 31 minutes.

Even more odd, in the evening peak period, the journey time is cut again to just 30 minutes for departures at 17:17 and 17:42 but with the longest headway gap between them – at 25 minutes, before improving to every 20 minutes after 18:00, and a journey time down to 28 minutes and, finally, 25 minutes after 19:00.

To finish things off here’s the rest of the evening with a half hour’s gap to 20:13 them inexplicably a 34 minute gap to 20:47 before back to 30 then 31, then 30 and finally 31 minutes between journeys while journey times reduce to 21 minutes by the last departure.

I’ll not bore you with the inbound direction but it follows a similar inconsistent pattern with irregular gaps in the headway and varying journey times. Looking at the overall timetable, if I sketched it out on old style vehicle graph paper, there seems to be no reason why a regular 15 minute frequency can’t apply throughout the day moving to a 20 minute interval across the evening peak after 17:00 and through the evening itself.

But, I’m guessing the AI process looking at thousands of actual journey times on the road across a historic period of time reckons its timetable ensures “our buses are as efficient and punctual as possible”, to quote Simon’s endorsement on the Prospective website.

That’s as maybe for the statisticians but for passengers it’s a complete turn off. And I can’t believe Simon reckons by First Bus using this new AI process “we’re not only looking to drive improvements for our existing customers, but to make bus an affordable, more reliable and attractive part of everyone’s everyday transport mix.”

I’m sorry to be a party pooper but this is cloud cuckoo land DRT Mark 2. I just can’t see new passengers flocking to travel on route 4 with such an unattractive sales proposition conveyed by the above timetable, nor all the other routes now being scheduled in this way – I just took route 4 as a random example from the First Bus website.

Far better would be to promote the simplicity and regularity of a standardised ‘every 15 minutes frequency’ coupled with relentless promotion of the availability of real time information on websites such as bustimes.org and even the First Bus app so passengers can see where the bus actually is compared to the scheduled time, which is likely to be within 2-3 minutes variation anyway, if the AI data is worth anything. A variation to schedule like that is something most passengers would find acceptable – and frankly, more acceptable than the abomination of a timetable this AI process produces.

Conditions on the road vary by two to three minutes from day to day depending on a whole host of factors (eg numbers of passengers travelling, queries they might raise, the need to deploy a wheelchair ramp, road and weather conditions etc etc etc) and to try and schedule what must be an average of all these minor variations is just a complete waste of time and counter productive to the objective of making bus a “more reliable and attractive part of everyone’s everyday transport mix.”

Simon enthuses “the results we’ve achieved in West Yorkshire and the West of England have been incredible in such a short space of time, but we’re only scratching the surface of its potential. We’re excited to roll out this software and see the benefits it brings to our customers.”

Harry and Ted will be turning in their graves.

You can read the full article which appeared in a recent edition of Coach & Bus Week magazine here, or reproduced below this blog.

Roger French

Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThS

Comments are welcome but please keep them relevant to the blog topic, avoid personal insults and add your name (or an identifier). Thank you.

59 thoughts on “Bus times driven by AI

  1. Very interesting! I don’t know about AI, but we were doing something very similar for many routes at a Sussex company with (then) red buses before I retired in 2019. They used vehicle tracking data accumulated from the bus location/real time sign system to develop timetables with trip to trip running time variations.

    Anthony Holden

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Whilst clockface timetables maybe the ideal the reality i that in most cases they do not work and lead to late running buses and or cancelations in addition in many cases the timetables have to be adjusted am and pm to fit around school start and finish times even the route has to be adjusted for some journeys. The answer is ready availability of printed timetables and displays at bus stops
    There seems to be little interest in investing in displays at bus stops even though over a few years they must be lower cost then trying to keep paper timetables up to date at bus stops

    Like

  3. It would be interesting to know what proportion of passengers check the times of their next bus by looking at an online journey planner, and how many use a paper (or online) timetable. If the majority use a journey planner, then it is probably less important if the time gap between the next journey and the one after is a round, easy to remember, value in minutes – or not.

    To put it another way, if the passenger obtains timetable information from a book which is on a shelf at home, then it is probably a good idea to make sure that the timetable is consistent and easy to remember. On the other hand, if the passenger’s source of information is a mobile device that they have in their pocket, and can check while they are walking to the bus stop, then I suggest that a regular frequency is less important. What is then important is that the information they receive is reasonably accurate, so that, if the journey planner says that the bus will arrive in 2 minutes, then it should do so, perhaps within 3 or 4 minutes – but not 20 minutes later.

    Most of my public transport journeys currently involve trains, where real time tracking of the actual “vehicle” is no doubt easier to achieve than with buses. In those cases, the journey planner can show the timetabled departure and arrival times, together with updated “real” values based on the actual progress of the train. If accurate, real time, values are not so easily obtainable for buses, then it is more important that the published timetable more accurately reflects the conditions on the road.

    Nigel Frampton

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    1. Using a journey planner to make a single leg journey on a route they use regularly would be considered overkill for many people. If the buses run to a consistent pattern then it’s easy to remember the times without needing to look them up every time, especially for older people who may be less tech savvy.

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  4. Oh Gawd!! Back to first principles: why buses? Answer . . . to transport people from place to place; let’s call them “passengers”.
    What do passengers tell us, above almost everything else? They want timetables that are easy to understand; after that, they want the bus to turn up when the timetable says. In practice, passengers will understand if the bus is a couple of minutes late; some of them will be grateful if they leave the house a bit late themselves!

    If the timetable is “high frequency”, then flexing journeys by an odd minute is fine . . . passengers won’t either know or care. This is done in London (and I daresay in other conurbations), and has been so for several years.
    If the timetable is low frequency, then flexing by an odd minute will risk passengers missing the bus. Route 8 (Slough-Windsor-Staines-Heathrow) runs at 2 BPH, and is to have a “flexed” timetable, see: https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/buses-and-other-transport/bus-timetables/timetable?id=360463
    Some journeys will leave 3 minutes earlier than others, with no predictability . . . that’s enough for some passengers to miss the bus.

    This is not being done to help passengers . . . it’s being done to show the Traffic Commissioners that “we’ve done what we can, so if the bus still runs outside the -2/+5 window, it won’t be our fault”.
    If running times are that variable, schedule “catch-up” times somewhere sensible . . . on Route 8 this can be at Windsor and Staines; most passengers won’t even notice them!

    Give drivers the chance to do their job . . . explain clearly about early-running, and why it’s bad . . . and give the passengers clear, unambiguous timetables, that account for most variables.

    I despair, I really do . . .

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I agree with the point about high frequency routes. As a ‘passenger’ I don’t care if the bus is one or two minutes late. As a Londoner I usually check bus times on the app in any case. What I do look for though is speed of journey so I don’t enjoy being held for a few minutes ‘while we regulate the service’ or in reality ‘ while we maximise our bonuses’. Until TfL changes its absurd contracting regime where bonuses are paid on maintaining even headways (even on HF routes) at the expense of everything else we won’t see any improvement in journey times. There are also issues like 20mph zones and taking out bus lanes but that is for another day. One last point no one has mentioned school and non-schoolday schedules. In London not all routes have differing schedules. Another absurd point about the tendering regime. Surely that should be a requirement on practically every route and contract ?

      Martin W

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  5. BC Transit in Canada, particularly in Victoria (I have a relative there) have had similar bonkers schedules for years, before AI was a twinkle in someone’s eye. Routes with a reasonable frequency have departures all over the clock face. I have never managed to work out why this is so, but you can spot different running times (even a minute or two) for adjacent departures, which over the day, has a cumulative effect. The result are timetables that always need to be consulted rather than an easily remembered timetable – the car outside the house has a lower impediment to use as it is always available.

    To my mind, saying a route leaves every 15 minutes and actually schedule it that way, is a real customer attraction, and it feels to me BC Transit are missing a trick. I have groaned to see this being embraced by First.

    By all means use AI to work out what works operationally, but why not round the answer up (or add some extra layover) to make the schedule attractive to the human? Last time I checked, HAL does not use the bus.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Thank you for this, I wish I could “like” it more than once! First York’s timetabling has become a chaotic nightmare since they moved to AI-based scheduling. Not only are the timetables ridiculously inconsistent, with random headways and running times as you have highlighted, but they change frequently so there is no chance at all of people being able to keep up with the actual timetable, guaranteeing they will have to refer to a journey planner for each and every journey. With their routes having been salami-sliced over the years seeing progressive reductions in frequency, routes that at one time ran every 10 minutes can now have gaps of more than 20 minutes between buses at times. There is no way that the traffic in York is predictable enough that these small variations from one journey to the next can be justified, when from one *day* to the next the same journey can easily take 5 or 10 minutes longer.

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  7. It is possible to create robust timetables which are customer friendly without having ridiculous variations throughout the day. It is accepted that running times at peak times, whenever they are, will vary. The problem with these allegations that AI or whatever will improve the service is not aimed at passengers. These companies offering these programs are not operators or have any experience in the industry, they have picked up on something and delivered a product which they have sold to companies such as First, usually to people that aren’t schedulers or had any operational experience.

    What happened to Optibus at First and Stagecoach? I thought First had ditched Omnibus and Stagecoach had ditched Trapeze for Optibus

    NT

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Roger is absolutely right as ever. Drivers can no longer give a simple answer to questions like when is the next bus? Or how often do buses run? The lack of paper timetables in many areas makes the giving of information even more difficult.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. The “Snake Oil” Salesmen strike again! Of course the bus companies will lap this one up as their only interests are punctuality regardless of inconsistent headways and the fear of Traffic Commissioners.

    As pointed out, traffic can vary enormously from day to day, Mondays and Friday rush hours being generally quieter than mid-week. So what next? Different timetables each day of the week?

    I am sure AI can be used sensibly for a variety of uses, but confusing passengers isn’t one of them.

    Terence Uden

    Liked by 2 people

    1. The stupid thing is that AI has to work within certain parameters, so it shouldn’t be beyond the wit of the operator to make regular headways one of those parameters.

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      1. This was my exact point I came to make. AI is only as good as the parameters set – it will make huge leaps and bounds over long slow methods of manual calculation but the end product is only as good as the information and parameters set by the user.

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  10. If journey times vary throughout the day, then bus times cannot be at the same minutes past the hour. It may be possible for a bus to leave a terminus at 00, 15, 30, and 45 minutes past the hour, but further into the trip, because total journey times vary, stops will not have the same regular timings. The penultimate stop could be as much as 8 minutes earlier or later based on your timings for route 4. You may start out with a regular clockface timetable, but that cannot suit the whole route.

    MotCO

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    1. The question is whether journey times vary that consistently and predictably throughout the day that it is worth abandoning the clockface timetable for … and the answer is that generally they don’t. Just pick one running time and stick with it for 0930 to 1500 (or longer). People will understand that the bus might be a minute or two late depending on traffic, a lot more than they will understand a timetable that looks like it has been generated by rolling dice and flipping coins.

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  11. First have introduced Prospective in Sheffield in stages over the last few months. We have two local routes. One is a cross-city service which has traditionally had a 15 minute frequency but has been notorious for late running and consequent bunching. The arrival of Prospective does not seem, on the basis of casual observation, to have brought any improvement. The second route is shared with Stagecoach as a part of the so-called Sheffield Bus Partnership (pause for wry laughs). Before September each operator ran every 15 mins evenings and Sundays. When Prospective arrived in September, First’s journeys were retimed so that the headway now became 1 min followed by 29 mins with the obvious result of buses cahsing each other virtually empty. The situation has ben put right by a new registration from next week, but it is seems clear that no human interevntion to deal with Artificial ‘Intelligence’ took place first! By the way South Yorkshire’s online timetable for the route requires 16 pages of A4 printout. Nothing is available in print of course: i ahve ahd to type out my own deaprture list. Planners are useful, but none -even the excellent bustimes.org- are 100% reliable if there are GPS glitches.
    Phil Drake

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  12. New Shiny toys time for the lunatics in charge,and the those who can no longer think for themselves, just shows the loss of properly trained personnel. How can you understand the business if you don’t know how to schedule properly or write a timetable that can use all the local wiggles to keep it stable You are so right= DRT2 is here soon be a condition of Tendering etc imposed by the DFT.

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  13. The reality is that in most cases peak journeys need a lot more time than off peak journeys so to have reliable clock face timetables all journeys would have to have peak timings which is very wasteful of time and off peak passengers would get fed up with constantly being sat at bus stops as the driver needs to lose time and that with out having to deal with the school journeys

    In general at least in the more rural areas peak timings are not clock face whilst most off peak journeys are

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    1. It’s absolutely fine to have different running times for peak and off-peak – no-one is arguing against that. But that isn’t what the article is about, it’s looking at microtweaks between each and every journey throughout the day.

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  14. According to the Office of Road and Rail statistics, 69.2% of trains were on time in the last published quarter (Jul-Sep 2023). It increases to 86.9% by including trains that were up to 5 or 10 minutes late (the metric varies by route).

    The Traffic Commissioners’ standard for buses of 95% within -1/+5 is thus not achieved by the rail industry, where running times are far less affected by roadworks and the like. The TCs need to look at introducing something more realistic for buses, not maintaining a theoretical standard which these AI timetables might comply with, but as Roger says, destroy any semblance of a simple, easy to remember one for passengers.

    KCC

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  15. First services Solent Rangers X4 X5 between Southampton & Fareham/Gosport/Portsmouth now have this utterly ludricrous every 42 to 46 min timetable!
    Enough hassle to put even the most hardened bus user to think of alternative options.
    If service freq is average around every 10 to 12 min most folk can handle that but in areas where buses are not that freq there is no chance a car user will give up their warm motor for a wait at a bus stop not being sure when next bus will turn up. Every hour on the hour. Easily to remember. Every half hour. Fairly simple. Every 42 to 46 mins? Nah…where is the train station?

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  16. Such times are also coming to First’s route 8 between Heathrow and Slough, which will confuse passengers when turning up at the airport to find which bus time to look at instead of remembering the “every 30 mins” display.

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  17. First’s journey planner is a bit of a joke if you put in a town’s name rather than using the most popular central stop it seems to start your journey at the fringes of the town . Walk 10 minutes etc before actually getting a start point that is convenient for the centre . You are better to trawl through the pages to find the timetable relevant to your journey . Using the First Eastern Counties “X” series of Coastal Clipper services regularly the clock faced timetable allows the extra time for peak journeys through out the day which results in an off peak service waiting around at bus stops and a 25 mile journey taking over an hour . The services need looking at by local people with local knowledge I’m afraid .

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  18. As a passenger, personally I put a much higher value on a bus turning up at the scheduled time than I do on the neatness of a theoretical clock face timetable.

    Reducing the required contingency time when planning a journey goes straight to improving the competitiveness and attractiveness of bus as a travel choice. That will be a critical factor in retaining the growth in demand driven by the current £2 fare, once that subsidy falls away and fares inevitably increase.

    The relative value I personally place on reliability vs clock face is of course exactly what First and Prospective are implicitly asserting is reflected across the majority of their passengers – patronage over the coming months will inform whether that is proved correct or otherwise.

    DG

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    1. One despairs! Surely no half-decent bus company will fall for this idiocy? Hardly the way to attract additional passengers, more likely to lose the ones you have!

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  19. Got to disagree with Roger here, at least for routes with turn-up and go frequencies. For my local buses in London (which are typically every ten mins or so) I’m not even looking at the timetable. If I’m not at the stop (in which case I rely on Countdown), it’s straight to Google maps, click on the bus stop, and see how long it is until the next arrival and whether it looks like there is disruption somewhere on the route. So the fact that the on-paper schedule moves around by a minute or two is totally irrelevant to me, what matters is the time until the next bus and whether I can rely on the prediction to be acurate.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. But that’s the whole point . . . turn up and go is exactly that . . . a timetable really isn’t necessary. Out in the boondocks, we don’t always have wifi all the time; we can’t rely on an accurate GPS update to keep us informed; sometimes we can’t actually reach bustimes when we need to . . . so we need a timetable to refer to, and a regular service interval gives us some certainty.

      It is also about selling the service . . . if I’m out and need to change my travel plans . . . knowing that the next bus is 20 minutes, or 30 minutes away, is comforting. How many passengers actually know about bustimes? Or other options? You have to be in the know already to use them . . . and an awful lot of folk don’t.

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      1. Absolutely. An important part of selling the service must surely include some idea of frequency. Is it around every 12, 15, 20, 30 minutes or whatever. If times are all over the place, how are people to know unless the are mathematicians?

        I would add that journey times in urban areas are often disrupted simply by “normal” traffic lights. All you need is for one bus to just miss getting through lights which have say a two-minute cycle, then get held up at the next lights, and for the bus after to sail through on green … and through no fault of drivers or bus operators things can go to pot.

        Peter Hale

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    2. But we’re not talking about turn-up-and-go frequencies.
      Sure, if the service is every 10 minutes or better than you don’t worry about a timetable … but when there are only 3 or 4 buses per hour with random gaps of over 25 minutes at various points, you’re going to want to know exactly when the bus is supposed to be due … and it’s more important to have even headways to minimise those long waits between buses.

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  20. At the risk of belabouring the point . . . here are the MF daytime departure times from Watford on Route 602 operated by Uno from 7 January (source: Intalink):
    0952; 1022; 1052; 1126; 1201; 1226; 1259; 1328; 1359; 1426; 1458. On all these trips, the running time is exactly the same, at 2 hours 20 minutes.
    On all trips, there is no hesitation time between Watford and St Albans (1:20 journey time) and then THREE lots of 5 minutes waiting time at the City Station and twice within the Hatfield campus.

    Departures from Colney Fields towards Watford on MF are at: 0947; 1021; 1056; 1121; 1154; 1223; 1254; 1321; 1353; 1423; 1453. Similarly, full journey times are exactly the same for all these journeys.

    I just don’t get it . . . especially when the Saturday timetable is unchanged, and every other Saturday Watford FC play at home, and traffic around the town goes haywire for 2 hours before and 1 hour after match time (which, being Premier League, will vary depending on TV times). Let’s see AI cope with that!!

    I’ll stop now.

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  21. The key question in all of this is “who is the customer?”.

    Is it the passenger, or is it the local government body providing the subsidy (covering concessionary travel or ensuring that there is a minimum of service), on the premise that most routes get some sort of subsidy (concessionary fares at least).

    Local government is likely to want to spend the least money possible to cover their statutory responsibilities (or to make politicians look good), and naively will either not know the impact of irregular frequencies, or (politically) will not care because they consider the passengers to be voters of the other party (and not very economically active), so there is no point in favouring them with the amenity of a bus service. I recognise that is a cynical view and won’t be universal across the UK.

    MilesT

    Like

      1. Bus operators receive income from the following sources:
        1. From the passenger through the ticket machine or web fares;
        2. From DfT via the Bus Service Operators Grant, which is intended to repay part of the Fuel Duty imposed by the Treasury on sales of all fuels.
        3. From DfT (via LTAs) as recompense for NOT charging the full adult fare for ENCTS passholders. In theory, this is fully funded by DfT . . . in practice, it is only partially funded; the LTA has to make up the difference (or not).
        4. From DfT as recompense for setting a maximum single fare of £2. Remember that this is NOT intended to help bus operators, but to help persons on low incomes. It can be withdrawn at any time (currently sometime in late 2024).

        IF the operator runs bus services on behalf of a LTA, then they will receive a payment (usually on a pence per mile basis) for the operation of that service.

        Subsidy implies that it is a gift to the operator . . . it isn’t. In 2.; 3.; 4; above, there is much data to be supplied to DfT; all of which costs staff time (and wages) to be calculated. If DfT don’t like the figures, they can withhold payments.

        Running a bus service is no longer simple . . . fares minus cost = profit or loss.

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  22. I assume Stagecoach have not got onto these irregular bus times I am seeing here as they seem to publish regular timetables still. Are they to be the exception, or will they start odd timings too, in which case they can hardly go on publishing timetables on the web?
    I rely on factual published times.
    malcolm chase, Buses Worldwide

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  23. Harry and Ted can rest in peace. Arriva Yorkshire still plans timetables and schedules for West Yorkshire and Selby from the Belle Isle offices… and still uses consistent headways, coordinated between services across common corridors, with clockfare departures throughout the off-peak and at weekends.

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  24. A great article – thank you. I have one quibble. A statistician with an understanding of Statistical Process Control alongside common and special causes of variation would never suggest this crazy approach. Instead: Standardise, leave alone, monitor and, if necessary, refine. The most difficult bit is to convince managers to ‘leave alone’ which can be paraphrased as ‘don’t just do something, stand there’. It’s the techies – with no statistical expertise – who love this crap. Until recently, the answer to everything was an app, now it’s AI. Richard Capper, The Universal Improvement Company

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  25. Before AI, service 1/1B between Beeston and Leeds enjoyed a fairly ok level of service every 15 mins from 7am, and that was actually from 06.45 until July this year too. Now look at it, gaps everywhere with a significantly reduced AM peak frequency until 07.30 from Beeston and even after then there are some silly gaps. https://www.wymetro.com/buses/timetables/1

    Notice the 2 buses actually running in service together at 18.02 and 18.03 from Leeds to Beeston, not to mention quite a few others just minutes apart followed by near 25 minute gaps? Bus timetable planners spend years trying to avoid 2 buses running together, AI has decided otherwise!

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      1. I can assure you that’s not the case, massive queues during the bigger gaps can regularly be seen on Park Row for example, Morning journeys to town from Beeston are often full by Beeston Hill with passengers left behind if a single decker is put on, which also often happens.

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  26. Unfortunately the punctuality targets set by the TC are – in some areas at least – enthusiastically championed by DVSA officers. Whilst there is rarely resource for roadside monitoring, DVSA now has access to a portal on the BODS system which can give them punctuality statistics for every route.Local BOAM officers therefore apply continual pressure (through veiled threats to refer to the Office of the TC) to ‘improve’ punctuality to 95% or more. As any bus manager will tell you, this is a virtually impossible target on many routes. But ‘doing something’ to get closer to the target is clearly more acceptable than simply doing nothing. So I fear continual changes and madcap scheduling like this will continue until the targets are more closely aligned with the real world.

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  27. This is typical situation regarding IT specialists who do not know what they are doing. It should be so easy to tell the system tht a priority requirement would be to have solutions which work with the customers’ requirements of having easily memorable time intervals – and for this to take priority over the ridiculous timeings given. They just haven’t spent enough time telling the AI software how to behave. The AI concept is valid, but the execution is wrong.

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  28. I asked someon at First whether the AI system would produce even headways if there was good bus priority, I was told the Stourton P and R had even headways from AI timetables as there was good bus priority. So the real issue is congestion. In congestion you get higher fares and unreliable times, If you want even sensible frequencies and reliabliity you need bus priority. In its absence bus companies will try to cope with AI and other methods and no-one will be happy.
    In Bradford we have massive city centre roadworks and several serious car crashes a day, Our buses are a complete mess, not a few minutes late, lucky if it is only an hour late. So don’t do the right thing, i.e. put in more bus lanes, do the wrong thing, bring in frahchising and then the council taxpayers can pay over the top for a lousy service.

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  29. No more “up to every 10 minutes ” straplines on bus exteriors then.

    And I would echo the comment immediately above, the issue is congestion and lack of bus priorities. This is what BSIP funding was originally intended to prioritise.

    Peter Brown

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  30. In theory systems like this should take all that graph drawing work away leaving the schedules experts to use their expertise where it’s needed to solve problems.
    My understanding (which could be wrong) is that humans can take the automatically generated output and tidy it up. Perhaps the loss expertise of people like and Harry and Ted is part of the problem. Or even worse the commercial leadership doesn’t trust them to apply it.

    Neil B

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  31. One of my local routes, Arriva Merseyside 407 West Kirby-Liverpool has similar micro tweaks to the timetable throughout the day, the 407 is supposed to be every 20 minutes but you have to look at the timetable, as you have these tweaks, particularly to intermediate timetable points throughout the day

    SM

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  32. Other York routes are worse (have a look at the 5/5A or 10).

    My worry about calculating updated journey times based on real time running is that it ignores the fact that drivers are instructed not to depart timing points early. This means that the calculation of average times is skewed towards the effect of late running buses. Thus, each service revision extends the running times and thereby worsens the service.

    I saw this in reality when studying a tram line performance after opening where the journey times being achieved were significantly worse than the original planning values (which drove both cost and revenue forecasts). Initial analysis by others suggested that there was a problem with the dwell time at the stops, however my analysis showed that the lengthened dwell times were the result of early arrivals at each stop (every stop was a timing point), after which the drivers waited for the correct departure time. I undertook some analysis of the achieved journey time when the initial departure has been delayed. This gave a much better indication of the best possible journey times. The resulting tightening up of journey times (initially ameliorated by longer terminal layovers to provide insurance buffers of time) proved largely achievable after a little tweaking.

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  33. Back in the day, London Buses commissioned a scheduling program that was titled “CABS”.
    This stood for Computer AIDED Bus Scheduling.
    The program lasted for well over 30 years in front-line service and remains in use, with some compilers swearing by it. Other, more modern and allegedly improved scheduling programs are sworn “at” by compilers.

    Says it all, really.

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  34. Interesting that the still time at stops where drivers instructed to wait (either by control or standing instruction) is the kind of thing that AI can find ( a vehicle GPS can be remote monitored and an (exceptions) report produced, this is handy as it means more timing points – indeed all journeys – can be checked without having to have a person with a clipboard and pencil route checking (which can be done if needed once AI has thrown up anomalies).

    As to “duplication” on some departures (including say 2nd vehicle running short route) this used to happen years ago, is it actually allowed on submission of a timetable to Traffic Commissioners- is the timetable per bus – or can it allow for multiple vehicles proffering more seats at a departure time ?

    Meanwhile in London on low frequency routes I get annoyed at vehicles departing early – from start point and from driver change over points too , from the published timetables. I questioned one driver as to if he were the previous timed vehicle running late or the next one running early – he refused to answer me, asking me where I wanted to go.

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    1. Current standard for duplication is that the additional bus must run the whole route.
      If it operates regularly, it should be registered.
      KCC

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  35. I think if you go back to first (sic) principles on that York timetable to look at either the reverse journey (how does running time in one direction impact the departure time in the other) or any interworked journeys – and this is where local knowledge can help – can a vehicle/driver actually run as short alternative service in the “gap” between one or more departures on a longer / alternative services ?

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  36. Travelled to and from Leeds on the First X84 today. I was on the 14:30 from Leeds for my return journey and felt there was less traffic than usual out of Leeds and fewer stops for passengers – and became conscious we were crawling along from Headingley, holding up traffic behind, and then we parked up somewhere near Bramhope, turned off the engine for about 5 minutes before setting off again at a gentle pace to Otley.
    I knew about the new AI created timetable and wondered what the problem was today and why the First timetable and AI data analysis did not match the pattern of traffic and passenger numbers along the route. Checked when I got home – possibly because Leeds schools are not back until Monday 8th January and Leeds University not back until 15th January?
    Crawling along and stopping at timing points is understandable but in terms of passenger experience it is also a bit annoying!
    AI may produce the most efficient timetable using the data it is provided with – but it needs to be programmed to understand passenger experience, preferences and other requirements – like memorable clockface departure times and school holiday dates – and incorporate these into its final outputs.
    Jan

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  37. Maybe, just maybe, younger passengers simply don’t want timetables, so neat “clockface” departures no longer matter. If instead, you use a smartphone to plan a journey in, say, the hour ahead, then micro tweaks that make things more reliable might be very beneficial. So the new world might be “I use bus X because it is frequent. On my phone, I ask when the buses are due in the next hour ahead, and I hope it does then turn up at that time at the bus stop. I don’t care if I instead wait an hour, and it arrives at XX:17 rather than XX:14 – just as long as it is there as expected”

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  38. Would a “Every 15-20 Minutes” on the timetable not suffice ? Although the timetable isn’t clockface it’s a realistic timetable of what can be achieved surely that’s better than a clockface pattern that runs late all the time ?

    The way things are going with Buses , lack of funding , usage falling to have a clockface pattern would require extra resources which simply cannot be done at least this way you know the bus should come within 15-20 mins and your expecting 3 or 4 buses and hour not great but realistic plus with all the apps out there etc can see where the bus is in real time not ideal for older folk but the future of buses .

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  39. I can recall driving buses into and out of Birmingham (144, when it existed). My actual running times were completely inconsistent. Sometimes I knew why (traffic congestion, passenger asked for additional information, following a National Express West Midlands bus which obstructed me at stops) sometimes I had a clear run and still arrived late. I’m sure the actual day-by-day timings varied by far more than the averages that would be set by AI, on an unpredictable basis. The passenger needs the real-time displays on the stops and workable apps on their phone. Sure, let the AI analyse the data and suggest running times, but leave a human scheduler to produce the actual scheduler using local knowledge. Then advertise something with some resemblance to being memorable !

    Mike Walton

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  40. It seems that some operators, at least. are now having second thoughts about AI-driven timetables.
    For the past year, East Yorkshire have been using CitySwift’s “rapid deployment and scenario modelling capabilities” in order to “transform the data analysis and insight into AI-powered runtimes, which improve punctuality and service reliability” – see RouteOne article from Jan 3 2023 at https://www.route-one.net/news/cityswift-big-data-tech-to-improve-efficiency-at-east-yorkshire-buses/.
    These AI-driven timetables were first introduced on urban routes around Hull in April and then to Bridlington Locals 2/3/4/5/6 in September. For an example, see the current 4/4A timetable at https://www.eastyorkshirebuses.co.uk/services/EY/4 where weekday morning departures are at 8:45, 09:05, 09:40, 10:15, 10:35, 11:20 and 11:45 on what used to be a combined 30′ frequency.

    However, from the next set of service changes on 28th January (see https://www.eastyorkshirebuses.co.uk/service-changes-28-january) the Bridlington Locals are again revised with the explanation “After carefully listening to your feedback, we’re going back to regular departures past the hour.”
    Its not all good news though, as to accommodate this one of the services (5/5A) has been reduced to hourly while (4/4A) will run at 20’/40′ intervals to give a 20′ frequency on the common section.

    So regular timetables again, but fewer departures overall, with some areas reduced from 2bph to hourly. This seems to sum up the whole issue – pluses and minuses on both sides, but the bus-users of Bridlington clearly had strong views on the matter !

    Nigel McBride

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  41. Here’s an excellent explainer of why bus bunching occurs, why buses are more prone to it than trams, and the various mitigations that can be applied.

    I wonder if AI is being seen as a quick and cheap fix alternative to proactive on the road service management?

    Peter Brown

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  42. Don’t agree with this at all. Clock-face timetables means nothing to me as a passenger. I never try to memorize the times in my head when it’s so easy to just look up the times in my phone.

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