Summer developments in Kent

Saturday 2nd August 2025

Before today’s blog a quick update on the mystery of the missing route 15 on 16th July and non replies from AtoB Bus and Coach. Following publication of Thursday’s blog I was contacted by AtoB’s owner Brian who apologised for the silence in response to my emails/phone calls explaining the company contracts out its email and call handling and that third party company had failed to notify AtoB of my (or any) communications from the public in recent times blaming various reasons from staff shortages to technical issues. Which just goes to show the risk of contracting out important matters like customer communications which I think Brian now appreciates. He also advised the bus suffered a puncture on the journey on 16th July, hence its non appearance in Bassingbourn, not least as they realised intending passengers had the 17 as an alternative.

And so to today’s blog….

I’ve checked out two interesting bus route developments in Kent over the last week to see how they’re doing. First up is a long extension for Stagecoach’s open top bus route 69 in Thanet.

Whereas it had been operating between Ramsgate and Broadstairs at weekends, for the school summer holidays its been extended westwards to three times that route length now continuing via Palm Beach, Margate, Westbrook and Westgate-on-Sea to Minnis Bay.

Buses run hourly from around 09:00 to 19:00 with an 80/90 minute end to end journey time depending on direction.

It’s a route packed full of variety as I found on my journey last week. Buses start in Cliffsend overlooking the sea on Sandwich Road at Ramsgate’s Viking Ship, which isn’t quite as imposing as you might imagine. It’s a replica of Viking Longship which sailed from Denmark to Thanet in 1949 to commemorate the 1,500th anniversary of the AD449 landing of Anglo-Saxon Chieftans Hengist and Horsa at Ebbsfleet, and the betrothal of Hengist’s daughter, Rowena, to King Vortigen of Kent. Well, that’s what the blurb says.

Eight minutes later the bus reaches the Boating Pool…

… where I boarded an already quite busy bus along with eight other passengers.

The bus stop flag which eschewed the old style pole in favour of an adjacent lamppost was adorned with a special plate promoting the service…

… and the timetable case contained a map and timetable.

The bus was a 19 year old former Stagecoach London ADL Enviro400 workhorse originally from Bromley which has subsequently been cut down to size and painted pink for ‘Discover Thanet’ for its second life on the coast…

… and as you can see has a mutli coloured electronic blind display revolving from red to green to blue.

After the Boating Pool it’s on to Ramsgate Harbour where, to my surprise, we only picked up one more passenger but the top deck was already getting quite full.

It’s then on via a bit more of seafront riding…

… to Broadstairs which as you can see from the map below means an inland routing for a short stretch due to there being no continuous coastal road…

… which includes some suburban seaside housing…

… and also some tight turns in residential roads.

As we approached Broadstairs the driver had more challenges with tight turns…

… and passing one of the other two buses on the route…

… which was also well loaded…

… we were soon in Broadstairs where a few passengers alighted and more boarded but it struck me how most passengers were on board for the 90 minute duration. As you may have seen from the map there’s a coastal B road (B2052) that heads north from Broadstairs to North Foreland but unfortunately it’s northern end is too narrow for bus operation…

…so instead we took an inland route along a rather nice tree lined road…

…which itself was quite a challenge…

… but we’re soon back on Kent’s north facing seafront heading towards Margate…

… and it’s familiar landmarks, some of which look past their prime, but not the Turner Contemporary, albeit looking rather bleak…

… and as we approach the main seafront in front of Dreamland…

… where there’s a five minute pause in the timetable for buses in both directions, we pass the third bus operating the route with another good number of passengers on board.

I was again surprised no passengers alighted in Margate and we picked more up at the station…

.. before heading back to the coastal road and on towards Westbrook…

… which brings some welcome green lawns to enjoy, although sadly some of the shelters have seen better days…

… and then on to Westgate-on-Sea…

… and finally to the terminus at Minnis Bay where there are two bus stops, one for passengers to alight, and most did so, although around ten stayed on board, and some boarded, then round the grass square called The Dip…

… and we approached the main pick up bus stop where another impressive number were waiting.

All in all a great varied ride and it was clear passengers were enjoying the journey notably by staying on board for such a long part of the route. I last took a ride on the 69 in its Ramsgate to Broadstairs format when first introduced in its more contemporary guise in 2018 when it was joined by a less successful counterpart, route 37, along Margate’s seafront which didn’t reappear. However, it’s good to see it’s now back and in a much improved format by linking it to the 69. It looks like Stagecoach South East has a well deserved success on its hands.

Meanwhile over in Medway, Arriva has begun new route 192 for the summer school holiday giving a much quicker journey from Allhallows-on-Sea, on the Isle of Grain, into Chatham.

I’m guessing this is a Medway Council BSIP funded initiative rather than a commercial venture, although that may be a false assumption especially as there’s absolutely no mention of the route on Medway Council’s website. (see extract below – and although the heading states “Timetables”, none of the routes listed are clickable, so it’s not really “Timetables”, more “A list of bus routes”)…

…but, commendably, it was good to see Arriva promoting the route with a bespoke timetable leaflet…

… with a route map as well as a comprehensive timetable including journeys between Allhallows and Chatham on route 191 which links the Isle of Grain with Medway on a year round basis.

As you can see route 191 takes over an hour for the end-to-end journey but the new 192 does it in 40 minutes. That’s because the 191 also serves Grain at the far end of the Island and diverts via High Halstow, and even more revolutionary, whereas the 191 is routed via Rochester and Stood into Chatham, the 192 uniquely uses the Medway Tunnel providing a very quick and attractive direct link.

One bus and one driver’s duty covers all five return journeys on route 192 leaving Chatham at 09:00, 10:30, 14:00, 15:30 and 17:00 and returning from Allhallows at 09:45, 11:15, 14:45, 16:15 and 17:50.

I travelled out on the 10:30 departure from Chatham last Tuesday morning. The bus arrived into the Waterfront bus station on its previous journey with four alighting although the driver told me only one had come from the Isle of Grain, and we left with eight on board with four travelling locally and four went all the way to Allhallows.

I originally thought I might stay in Allhallows and explore the area, catching the following return journey back at 14:45, but I’m pleased I opted to come straight back on the 11:15 departure as three and a half hours exploring a closed down pub (see above), static caravan park…

… and the huge Haven Kent Coast Holiday Park…

… didn’t really appeal once I’d arrived.

It was just me on the return journey (aside from a passenger who missed their stop on the way out and had to retrace her steps) but we picked up two in Hoo who were surprised to see us come through the village, expecting to have to wait for the 191…

… and then no-one until we went through the tunnel again…

… and did a circuit of the Dockside Outlet Centre…

… where four boarded and as did two more as we neared the terminus in Chatham, with all eight alighting and the driver heading off for his lunch break.

It’s an unusual route with much of the Isle of Grain quite barren looking…

… and the only community along the line of route being Hoo St Weburgh which the bus deviates off the A228 to serve ..

… with views out across to Canvey Island and Southend-on-Sea.

One point of interest was passing over the single track freight line which serves the Power Station and Container Terminal at the eastern end of the Island and connects with the main line east of Gravesend.

Route 192 offers a great improvement on journey times for those living or visiting the Island on holiday and travelling by bus from Chatham. It’s good to see Arriva has produced a leaflet and I noticed copies were available on board the bus and hopefully they’ve been distributed to residents and the Holiday Park.

Departure listings in Chatham’s Waterfront Bus Station had also been updated to include the 192 from 24th July…

… but, as you can see in this zoomed in photograph, Arriva’s confuse-a-passenger system of timetable presentation has spread to bus stop departure lists so that it shows both school day departures (s) and non school day departures (n) even though, I assume, the list will be updated again at the beginning of September.

It just unnecessarily complicates the presentation for passengers. This one, from another stop, was even worse (see the third column on the right).

At least the online timetable for the 192 on Arriva’s web site has a separate listing from the 191, but still shows every journey on weekdays with a school holiday code.

I see Medway Council must be using BSIP funds to promote free travel for up to three accompanied children during the school holidays…

… which is a welcome development and may help to boost family travel on the 192, but it’s a shame the general displays of timetables and network map in the bus station made no reference to the new route. You really had to hunt around to find out about it.

And if you don’t know it exists, you won’t be using it….

… especially if you ask Google’s AI search engine for information…

Roger French

Summer blogging timetable: 06:00 TThSSu

41 thoughts on “Summer developments in Kent

  1. I’m pleased the owner of A2B has got in touch, but do please update your readers on any response from Cambridge and Peterborough, and it will be a miracle if you ever get a response from DVSA

    Liked by 1 person

  2. You were very firmly in my “secondary school era” holiday hotspot. Minnis Bay is about a fifteen-minute walk from where my Nan & Granddad lived in Birchington on Sea. The 69 ran roughly the way it does now but the eastern end entertainment would have been the Pegwell Bay Hoverport. Full fronted Regent V white liveried crew worked open toppers were the order of those days. However, with scarce pocket money at my disposal I usually did the Birchington – Margate journeys by train. Nan & Granddad had a beach hut at Minnis Bay and I think winkle picking was the seaside task. There used to be a single storey “Trust House” in Birchington called the Bungalow Hotel. One utterly appropriate and thoroughly understandable building reuse in Birchington: the small police station near the Station is now the town’s Masonic Centre. The East Kent coach ticket agent was in a building in the back yard of “The Pewter Pot” PH near The Square and the parish church at The Square was where I witnessed the marriages of a step-uncle and his two sons and the funerals of Nan & Granddad. I was very probably present also for the baptisms of both my step-uncle’s sons. I am the Godfather to the younger son, Jason, who drives Channel Tunnel shuttle trains.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. It is great to see Gillingham garage getting this comfortable batch of new double deck buses that I enjoy riding on.

    Let’s hope they stay and give the longivety of service to the garage those Atlanteans diverted from Midland Red did in the 1970s.

    Arriva may not be everybody’s cup of tea but few complaints from me when I use their services in places I have enjoyed visiting for many years like the Medway Towns.

    As a fare paying bus user I’m fortunate the multi operator Discovery day ticket still exists. It’s a great pity there is not a weekly version available as a Smartcard or App for those like myself who enjoy Kent and for that matter Sussex from the top of a double decker bus.

    John Nicholas

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  4. A bunch of places, seem to be using BSIP money for fares promotions at the moment, I have seen them in Reading and Poole in the last week. The fact that study after study (TfL, ScotRail, DfT in the past year alone) shows they are poor value for taxpayers’ money seems to make no difference.

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    1. Leicestershire is using BSIP money to fund Saturday and Sunday free bus travel during August on designated tendered services but not Operators commercial routes.

      This is advertised by colourful laminated posters at stops.

      John Nicholas

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    2. Can’t just dismiss all fares initiatives as a waste. The BSIP funding of a Reading multi-operator ticket is most definitely not a waste.

      The Reading summer fares reductions are a commercial initiative by Reading Buses.

      John.

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  5. In the very distant past Allhallows had a rail station

    Largely demolished – the site is now a residential Park Home Estate known as Kingsmead Park Allhallows. The degraded north end of the platform survives as a raised base for new homes. The pillar water tank which was at the south end of the platform survives and has been restored and is well maintained. It stands amongst the homes.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Thank goodness the 15 mystery has been settled, but still not sure why A2B don’t even mention it on their website when the twice weekly 18 is shown.

    The former Bromley based open top vehicles I think are now in their third reincarnation. I don’t follow vehicle movements as closely as service changes, but am sure a whole batch that were formerly allocated to the 61, became open-top some years ago for one of the London sightseeing operations. The new East Kent 69 is almost a replica of fifty years ago when serving the Hoverport at Ramsgate.

    Casual observation shows more “tourist” buses in Central London now than TfL service ones at times!

    Terence Uden

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  7. I wonder how timekeeping was on 69 the day you used in Roger? I had a look on bustimes last Wednesday IIRC and some buses appeared to be running almost 40 mins late. There is a tight schedule with only 3 mins stand time at Cliffsend and 7 at Minnis Bay so I’m not surprised. I know it will be leisure traffic but a long wait will not lead to return custom.

    GJS

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  8. Another interesting & enjoyable report Roger. Nice to know the traditional open top bus has survived into the 21st century unlike good old fashioned communication.
    Ben who apologised for the silence in response to my emails/phone calls explaining the company contracts out its email and call handling.

    Unbelievable. I hope Ben cancels the contract & either starts answering his calls & e-mails directly or at least employs someone to do so. Even an automated reply with an apology for not being able to answer your enquiry right now & the promise of a response a.s.a.p.

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  9. Hello Roger,

    Just an advance warning of another development in Kent. From 1st September GoCoach (or GoBus as they now seem to be known) are operating a 477 Dartford to Swanley every 30 minutes. We don’t know whether this is in addition to the Arriva 477 Dartford to Orpington or replaces it leaving Swanley ASDA to Orpington unserved. Another cross border link lost? For quite along time Arriva have questioned the viability of their route, and it must be said that it is poorly used between Crockenhill and Orpington

    Brian Willson

    Orpington

    Liked by 1 person

  10. it’s always good to see a proper scheduled open top coastal bus service as opposed to those “hop on hop off” tour things. I hopebthe Stagecoach service thrives. It reminds me of happy childhood holidays to Bournemouth in the 1970s riding on Bournemouth Transport open top Fleetlines along the excellently named Overcliff Drives. Back when Bournemouth had proper yellow buses and not ghastly blue and red “More” buses. Below is a link to how I remember the buses looking in their yellow livery with blue flash on the sides.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/135725567845

    Peter Brown

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    1. Nicely put Peter. I’m fortunate to live in the New Forest & have wonderful memories of travelling on BCT’s earlier open top Fleetlines some of which, were operated in London after their service in Bournemouth. Although I agree about Morebus colours (compared with the previous Wilts & Dorset red,black & white livery) Go South Coast provide excellent open top Breezer services. Well worth checking out if you get a chance.

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    2. There is still a seasonal open-top service along the Overcliff Drives. Although operated by Morebus, the buses allocated to that service carry yellow livery (usually – vehicles in other liveries do make appearances)

      Malc M

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  11. The problem with the British Summer – Its too short Mid July to End of August. While in older days conductor holidays could be covered by relief conductors doing a busmans holiday or student temp infills drivers were more / are more difficult – it is a balance between drivers going on holiday and the reduction in need for school journeys that frees up enough for the enhanced summer tourist services. The Kent coast giving a typical English seaside holiday fill – the bus services probably more appealing to the week long boarding house families rather than a day tripper to Margate, though mid week pensioner club outings I would go on with Grandma I could manage the Open Top Trip from Broadstairs to Ramsgate ( didnt get out ) then round to Westwood Garage for a few photos then return for the chips tea before the seagulls had nicked everything.

    With a short lead in it makes marketing the routes more difficult , and of course this year the British weather was full sun most of May and Jun before the rains came mid July , though midday sun at mid summer is best left to mad dogs as roasting on an open topper brings the UVA to close for comfort.

    Arriva in Kent seem to have generally got themselves a reasonable urban bus location that should make money though as others said is it going a bit wobbly around Dartford / Ebbsfleet ?

    Information of when things go wrong is perhaps often levied at train companies – display boards and clueless staff and it is no different with Bus Companies. Not easy – my “summer job” was in part dealing with customer comments and complaints by phone or letter , to be honest there were not that many at least at getting through to head office , I found we had one advertised service not covered in our schedules , striving to reduce PVR every other route had been taken to maximum efficiency so to try to run it (perhaps I should have suggested an adjoining depot might have had better capacity) we needed one more capital expenditure vehicle plus either making it a full standby duty or another driver in for the peaks, thing was no one had called or written to ask where the route was (one number dedicated to a govt office) in the nine weeks since the schedules change. I did suggest getting an older DP coach in for the service as our hire dept manager (semi-retired on ill health driver) was always turning away weekend hire jobs as we didnt have enough vehicles to fulfill everything or duplicate summer saturday tours to the coast but other management overruled me on that.

    I have not counted all of the London sightseeing operators these days = anyone got a list and I think more come out at weekends compared to weekday. With larger vehicles I dont think the frequencies are quite what they may have been in the past.

    JBC Prestatyn

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  12. I see the single deck Bromley area Superloop service goes Double deck this weekend. Using made in China electric buses , meanwhile ADL carry on with closure of the Scottish Bus building site. Is someone not looking at what the long term cost of buying from overseas actually is ?

    JBC Prestatyn

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    1. Blame our inept politicians. The government grants that the operators receive to offset the cost of purchasing electric buses should of course state that only British built or assembled vehicles qualify. Yet the likes of BYD & Yutong probably already receive subsidies from their own government, also qualify. We often hear from the present government about preserving & increasing manufacturing industry & British jobs, yet this is a prime example of a lack of ‘joined up’ thinking. Just to make matters worse, it’s our money that’s being used!

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    2. It will be intweresting to see whether the new double-deckers take longer than the single-deckers to complete the route. From a passenger viewpoint, the top deck does give a better look-out post, but a crowded double-decker does take longer to unload and load. Ideally single deckers on all SL routes – like the old Greenlines – at twice the frequency!

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  13. So if a bus operator fails to respond to a complaint one has recourse to complain to the DVSA. But if the DVSA fails to respond who do you then complain to?

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    1. You would have to complain to your local MP and/or to the Department for Transport if the DVSA fails to respond to any complaint that you make.

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  14. In my teenage years several of our summer holidays included a week at Cliftonville so I was very familiar with East Kent’s services on the Isle of Thanet. I can therefore tell you that on September 4th 1973 open top Regent V PFN 855 took me from Pegwell Bay Hoverport to Cliftonville on Service 69.

    As Roger says, the current route runs inland between Broadstairs and Cliftonville to avoid narrow roads however for the 1973 season Service 69 did (bravely) run via Joss Bay. Hitherto that area had been covered by local service 55 which was run, most unusually, with Bedford VAS5 coaches which had replaced Dennis Lancets.

    On the subject of A2B, the only time I ever complained to a County Council about the non appearance of a tendered service, I was told that the vehicle concerned had also suffered a puncture!

    Having been through all A2Bs tickets machines on “Bus Times”, none of them seem to have been used on Service 15 this week. Incidentally the owner is Brian Clifford, not “Ben”.

    Nigel Turner

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  15. For the likes of the A2B service 15 which covers both an existing route and some unique sections would not the best for the company to do is actually run it with a London Taxi and interchange if needed rather than a full 12 seater or whatever bus ?

    JBC Prestatyn

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  16. For Brian Willson – The Arriva hourlyish 477 Dartford To Orpington present timetable on the net is from Sun 1st Jun 2025 to Tues 28th Oct 2025

    I dont know if the Tuesday date is significant or a general Arriva recast date. Looking at the timetable I think it could work at a better every half hour and slightly later Orpington departures.

    JBC Prestatyn

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    1. The October date is meaningless. Several MK Arriva routes say valid until October, but Arriva have just announced they are changing them in a few weeks time. Clearly a default date in the system or something!

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  17. Good to see the open top 69 proving popular (as it was when I saw it the previous week) The colour displays on the two ex Selkent E400s are Aesys that were retained from when it first went to Megabus sightseeing. Two other open top vehicles are ex London Scania Omnicities which were displaced from 97 the previous though are only used as a last resort whenever either the ALXs or the E400s are out of action.

    ^CD

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  18. You have to search for the 192 on the Arriva UK Bus website, using the ‘Search’ function. It doesn’t appear to be listed on the ‘Medway Towns’ page, so you can’t find it, unless you already know of it’s existence.

    A family member lives alongside the route, and hasn’t had a leaflet drop, which Arriva last did for the 101 Maidstone route change/frequency increase, and was surprised, given the complete lack of printed publicity in the area.

    It also seems strange not to terminate at Chatham Railway Station, nor serve ‘The Strand’ Lido, if it is a “summer only” route.

    CA

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  19. Another good report on buses to isles that are not islands – Grain and Thanet!

    Allhallows was a speculative venture by SECR to develop a resort to rival Southend unfortunately WW1 meant it didn’t take off. I really cannot fsee a demand for this route and think the bus/driver could be better used elsewhere.

    Interesting to compare the Thanet route to those shown in Ray Stenning’s book A National bus company album. The “new” 69 is remarkably similar so I wonder if the 44 at Herne Bay will also return? Does seem to be quite a long route so wondered if it could operate in overlapping sections?

    Richard Warwick

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  20. It Does seem travelling the full or a long portion of the 69 is preferred by the passengers Roger noted. While with a day ticket overlapping would not be a problem but would people be put off changing.

    The summer part of the 192 seems to be to give Allhallows a shopping trip rather than a lido trip (if you want swimming or ents its at the caravan park anyway) There only appears to be one duplicated trip to Chatham with the 191 the rest of the time it infills the timetable of the 191 and its effectively a 191 express. Roger’s (Arriva’s) map diagram doesnt actually show the 192 as terminating at All Hallows. There are now plenty of net links showing the 192 and its timetable but only for search operator kent and number and Arriva did mention it on its website = which needs a redesign to separtate future planned changes in one colum , diversions in one colum and recent past implemented changes in another rather than a back chronology all mixed. in detail it also talks about Northfleet when referring to some Maidstone ?changes . most of Arriva Kent’s plans seem to be about service reductions (10mins to 12mins, 15mins to 20mins, 30mins to hourly) but there are a couple of planned frequency enhancements mentioned too. No note of a 477 route variation.

    Question for Roger – are you – or did you – visit Margate (Westwood) One : One museum that opened recently ?

    JBC Prestatyn

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  21. Reported Manston airport to reopen mainly for freight with a £500m investment. Is it rail connected ? Some passenger lo cost airlines may serve it too as a regional airport

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    1. There have been a number of recent attempts i understand to get Manston airport off the ground(!). Last passenger service I believe was a KLM shuttle to Schipol to connect with their network. It just seems a bit too remote but would make an intersting end of route attraction for the 69. I have been visiting the area regularly for the last 10 years and find Pegwell Hoverport a fascinating place…..which would be all the more so were there to be Hovercraft there!

      GJS

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  22. You can get rather better results from Google’s AI search engine if you use the new ‘AI Mode’, which was launched last week (28th July).  You select this by clicking on ‘AI mode’ in the search bar on the Google front page, but it isn’t used by the standard Google search which generates an ‘AI overview’ as quoted in the blog.

    However, AI Mode can be a bit hit and miss, and you do need to ask the right question. You are also advised to include as much information as you can.   When I asked ‘is there a 192 bus to allhallows’ it gave me a similar answer to Roger regarding London bus 192, along with a list of routes going near All Hallows Catholic School in Farnham Surrey, which AI thought I might mean as my home isn’t too far away !

    However, when I asked ‘Is there a new bus 192 from Allhallows to Chatham’, AI Mode gave a much better answer,  responding as follows :

    Yes, Arriva Kent and Medway recently introduced a new bus route 192, providing a direct summer service between Chatham and Allhallows. 
    This service began on July 24th. You can find the full timetable and map on the Arriva Kent and Medway Facebook page. Printed timetables are also available at The Pentagon, Chatham. 
    It is worth noting that there is another bus route also numbered 192, operated by Transport for London (TfL), that runs in the Enfield and Tottenham Hale areas of London. 

    However, below this there is a disclaimer, which states ‘AI responses may include mistakes’ !  There is also a link to the Arriva Facebook page for anyone seeking further details.

    But despite the problems, it has to be said the results are often entirely accurate. When I asked ‘Tell me about Roger French, the bus manager’, it came back with a seven-paragraph response, the first of which was :

    Roger French is a highly regarded and influential figure in the British bus industry, known for his long and successful career leading the Brighton & Hove Bus Company”.

    And you can’t say fairer than that !

    Liked by 1 person

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