Saturday 26th April 2025
Good for the LibDems. They’ve proposed an amendment to the Bus Services Bill, currently going through Parliament, which would add people playing music and videos out loud on a phone speaker on public transport to the list of antisocial behaviours such as dropping litter and using threatening behaviour.
Anyone caught blasting out the latest TikTok/Instagram/YouTube clip, favourite song or TV show could face a maximum fine of £1,000.
About time too. I’m getting increasingly fed up with such anti social behaviour which in my experience has risen exponentially in the last few years, especially since the advent of short burst clips to view on TikTok and the like.
And it’s not just those noises; people who talk, or even shout, into their phones while having a conversation, with or without the speaker on, are just as annoying. Why do such people think we all want to listen into their private conversation? It’s rude, uncaring and anti-social.
But how do you enforce a code of decent behaviour where passengers act considerately to their fellow travellers? We can’t expect bus drivers to get out of the cab and take action; and to think police officers are going to attend such an incident is living in a dreamworld.
Perhaps it needs to be self-enforcing through people power? But recent polling found 54% of passengers saying they would not feel comfortable asking someone to turn down their music on public transport. I’m surprised it’s that low. The problem being lowlife who are so selfish not to worry about their behaviour on others, won’t easily comply with a polite request to act with respect. But, it’s a problem. In the same poll 38% say they have experienced this increasingly annoying behaviour either often or sometimes.
I reckon I face it once a day on my travels. On a train, I usually move to another carriage if it’s someone being particularly annoying, but on a bus, there’s not much alternative.
Hannah Ewens, a freelance editor and writer, wrote an article in The Guardian last year about her mission to tackle the increasing scourge of passengers on buses and trains not using headphones while listening to their mobile devices.
The Guardian has given me permission to reproduce 500 words from Hannah’s article so I’ve edited down the salient points below. The full article is available on this link.
Hannah explains how a three segment journey across London using buses and trains each involved fellow passengers playing content on their phone loudly and led her to start a “social experiment” of intervening explaining how she follows the same approach every time the opportunity unreasonably presents itself and has found other passengers “nod or give me an encouraging look”.
“I had thought carefully about the best way to do this”, writes Hannah.
“I would neutralise my voice so my judgment could not poison the tone. I would smile with an open face and think positive thoughts about this man, so he would intuitively feel that I was friend not foe. And then I’d strip the message back to a basic sentence, not cushion it with an apology (an apology – from me!) or explain why I wanted the antisocial behaviour to stop. The only angry response came from a man who was, inexplicably, watching Jeremy Kyle clips on YouTube, which, sort of makes sense. “What’s it to you,” he asked rhetorically before probably wishing he hadn’t.”
“Things used to be very different. Back in the 2000s, there’d typically be a kid or two playing music on their phone at the back of the bus to school. Adults would tell them to stop and the kids would laugh but probably turn it off or down. Five years ago, everyone might have been glued to their phones in public and on commutes – but you would rarely find someone playing anything out loud, or at least for more than a few seconds, without it held close to their ear.
“Now it’s not just younger people polluting our public spaces with Joe Rogan interviews and ‘biohacking how-tos’ – it’s everyone. I don’t think people even realise they are doing this. Somewhere along the line this became normal – almost certainly during the pandemic, when we collectively decided that every conscious moment had to be filled with visual and audio content, before we were told to return to society. Let’s just say we’ve struggled. I believe this because when I’ve asked people to turn their devices down, they make one of two faces: either they look as if they are rousing from a century’s slumber or appear shocked at themselves, as if they don’t know how they got to this moment.
“You might argue that in theory this disturbance is no different from overhearing people have loud conversations or being harmlessly drunk and boisterous. But it is different. That tinny quality to the noise, the abrupt stop and start of video and audio, the chaotic nature of each content type happening at once in the same tube carriage: it’s distracting and disorientating. It stops you from being in the present, and has the perverse effect of forcing you into your own headphones and content bubble, when you might be – at least in my case – trying to reduce your own screen time. The only thing worse than being a slave to your own device and its incessant chatter is being forced to hear other people’s. The best way I can describe the sensation is that it feels as though I’m being attacked by some electrical leaching process; jacking up my already dysregulated nervous system.
“It doesn’t have to be this way. If enough people join me then eventually Transport for London or whoever your local transport body is will pay for a new advertisement: “Please give your seat up to pregnant women, please don’t sexually harass people, and no mid-tier content out loud please!” Imagine how clearly we would be able to think. Maybe we could even have pleasant interactions with each other.
“When I told that man on the top deck of the bus to listen to YouTube with headphones, he looked at me incredulously for a moment. Then, when what I’d asked of him finally sank in, he immediately blushed. “God, sorry,” he said. “Was in my own little world there.”
Good for Hannah for intervening. I’m not planning on doing so any time soon. But the annoyance will continue, and sadly, despite the LibDems, I can’t see enforcement arriving any time soon either.
Roger French
Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThS
BusAndTrainUser 
As a blind person, such distractions can be particularly problematic,
especially if they drown out the audio announcements on buses, which
tend to be difficult to hear at the best of times. However, when using a
navigation app, I don’t want to be wearing headphones, and I need
directions loud enough to hear, especially when there are no audio
announcements. Therefore, I love the intention behind this, but the
devil is in the detail. I had hoped that personal speakers would take
off more, but they didn’t, but maybe glasses will, and while there will
be some leak, it won’t be as bad as a phone speaker.
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I thought that regulations to control all this antisocial behaviour were already in force. In the 1960s when visiting family in Kent I would buy the latest EKRCC Timetable and there inside the front cover with the table of contents was an extract of the PSV Regulations governing drivers, conductors and passengers – forbidding the playing of musical instruments and radios. Throwing of alms from the bus was also prohibited. Probably the most salient word in the foregoing is that of “conductor”. These days for example the driver of a First Bus “BCE” sealed in his cab up front on the lower deck is effectively on another planet in relation to those at the back on the upper deck of his or her bus. In that EKRCC book is a dictum I always adhere to: “get to your stop five minutes before your bus is due” (to protect yourself from early runnings).
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Indeed….if Authorities cannot enforce the regulations that already exist, what hope is there? It has been increasingly apparent that fare evasion, particularly in Greater London where the ZIP card requirement for young people now appears to be optional may be a contributory factor to the steep rise in general anti-social behaviour and music playing. But the phone freaks are often self-obsessed young women…no detail of their ridiculous, empty lives spared for public airing. And why oh why are they always the one who do all the talking? The Airhead at the other end never gets a word in edgeways.
I long ago invested in a decent pair of ear plugs and frequently carry a portable CD. None of this would or should be necessary had the last two generations at least been brought up properly, and taught both values and self-discipline by both Parents and Schools…..another reason Society has all but collapsed.
Terence Uden
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“None of this would or should be necessary had the last two generations at least been brought up properly, and taught both values and self-discipline by both Parents and Schools…..another reason Society has all but collapsed.“
You like to wheel out this dog-whistle Daily Mail-esque codswallop pretty regularly. You make it sound like this is done by the majority of people, when it isn’t.
I often see these sort of. opinions carry on to say that bringing back National service / capital punishment/ caning is a) workable (spoiler, it isn’t) and b) actually going to make a difference.
It won’t.
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I fully agree with and support the policy campaign.
The problem with asking/pointing out/demanding/enforcing silence is that the broadcaster has already demonstrated their selfishness, thoughtlessness, disregard of societal norms, their self absorption, and they already show that they just donât care about others.
Same as feet on seats.
And there’s the risk that they are a nutter with a knife and a problem with authority.
Steve Wedd running for the morning bus.
>
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A very pertinent blog, which is about the breakdown of traditional norms in society, and the increase in anti social behaviour. I’ve noted that fare evasion in London is increasing and staff are clearly afraid to do anything, and graffiti on the Underground is definitely on the up significantly, even though I thought all carriages had CCTV.
All of this must be making public transport less attractive and reducing ridership
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There is already legislations in placed so I doubt this new legislation will be enforced
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Agree that legislation is a waste of time. I suggest bringing back buses like Bristol REs with Leyland 680 engines. Then the music blasting from under the floor at the back will drown out any tinny electronic competitors!
RC169
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Bakerloo, Central and Piccadilly line trains don’t have CCTV and they’re where the majority of the graffiti attacks occur.
Staff are instructed not to intervene in cases of fare evasion. This follows a number of serious assaults. Unfortunately this becomes self-perpetuating as fare evaders know the chances of being caught are near enough zero.
Steve
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The dismissal of 3 staff at London Bridge a few years ago will hardly have encouraged staff to intervene. The whole atmosphere of the Underground under Khan and Andy Lord reeks of managed decline – though even saying things are being “managed” is pushing it!
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The apparent decline is probably mostly due to the budget problems following Covid. That wasn’t helped by a very hostile central government at the time.
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Khan cheered on the lockdowns that destroyed TfL’s business model, and did everything possible to embarrass Johnson before that. No wonder when Covid arrived he got Zero help.
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Two lines do not CCTV, and the vandals know which ones, the state of the car interiors will make it obvious to everyone else. And what use is it anyway now that lockdown has made the casual wearing of paper face masks normal behaviour?
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Normally, if someone is using face time / WhatsApp for a video call on a bus, I join in with the conversation with a cheerie, ‘Hi, how are you doing’, normally the conversation goes on for a few seconds before the one of the people realises that they don’t know me and they normally retort with ‘do you mind this is a private conversation’, to which my response is normally ‘I think I have just proven it is not, and that’s is kind of the point’.
Steve
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Here on the Isle of Wight, we are plagued with loud, inane, phone calls. We really don’t need to hear about their clearly miserable lives as they argue with the person on the other end of the call.
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As someone who is abnormally sensitive to noise, I overcome this issue by taking noise-cancelling ear defenders with me when using public transport. Besides loud phone conversations and “music” there are those groups of people who get on, sit apart, and then carry on a shouted conversation that the whole bus can hear. It is sad, but it is a sign of the times – a “me/us first” culture that is also affecting (negatively) our political affairs.
It is not only fellow passengers, though, that cause a noise nuisance. The increasing number of on-board announcements is also hard to deal with. Do we really need to know at every stop that “This is a service 1 to (irritating pause) City Centre” or – a recent experience on a once-daily service – “This bus is being held to regulate the timetable”.
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Two other thoughts.
Parents who give their children tablets to play games on, invariably with loud cartoonish voices and music.
The annoying “dings” of incoming messages – can’t people turn off the sound?
On trains I have given up using the Quiet Carriage as the quietness is rarely enforced (indeed, the signage advising passengers is often poor) so I get annoyed.
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I think people often can’t turn off the sound. You can put your phone into silent mode, but that might mean you miss a text or phone call and lots of people have employers or relatives (and parents might be worse for this than children!) who expect them to be instantly available at all times. It’s theoretically possible on newer phones to go through every unimportant app and disable notifications. But the tech giants have let that remain a tedious chore, while every platform is full of attractive people urging you to like, subscribe, and turn on notifications. The path of least resistance is obvious.
Matthew
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No issue if vibrate is also enabled only for calls & messages when phone is in silent mode! And no need to disable notifications for the unimportant apps either – those will just arrive silently without any vibration.
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I too gave up on “Quiet” carriages. My blood pressure is lower in the noisy ones because I have no expectation of silence there.
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Same problem on airplanes. Why can’t the parents just turn down the sound but unfortunately parents are noisy themselves and have no idea of etiquette. Tony
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I think when I hear a mobile phone conversation, but only hear the person speaking INTO their phone, my brain assumes they are talking to me (as I can hear only one voice) and so it makes all the more effort to listen.
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I was on a bus the other day were a passenger was having a conversation on his mobile so loud that everyone on the bus could hear it, that it became irritating, but the big problem is, how do you police it & enforce the rules, when rules already exist but are often ignored.
SM
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It’s another reason why people use their cars instead.
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Dear Roger,
My friend, who is a Senior Manager on Greater Anglia, goes around specifically telling people not to put their ‘feet on the seats’. And I agree with him. Whenever we’re travelling together, and he sees this, he will make a point of going up to that person and saying ‘can you put your feet off the seats, please.’ Greater Anglia now have new stock, so its even more important to keep all the ‘furniture’ in prestine condition. If people do it, and take their shoes off first, it wouldn’t be so bad, but people have their shoes on all the time, when we see it happen! Its an annoying habit that people will have to get out of!!
Kind regards,
Ben Walsh, Cambridge.
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Slightly outdated wording for todays modern world, however in the words of John Stuart Mills
Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name,
So perhaps it is this that needs to change……
‘54% of passengers saying they would not feel comfortable asking someone to turn down their music on public transport.’
Those that don’t object can have no right of complaint.
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Children can get very excited travelling by bus and train and they are the next generation of travellers….they talk a lot.. ban talking…..get over it grumpy old men. RAF
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Sadly, the selfishness displayed by these people is a reflection of a general trend where respect for others simply doesn’t occur to them. We’ve all witnessed the deterioration over the past twenty years or so where social media (unfortunate description) has taken a grip of people’s lives. No willpower, can’t switch off in case they miss something. Often to the irritation of others around them. No easy solutions as there are no real deterrents. Very sad & as well as annoying!
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20 years ago I would say something as
a) I was young and strong enough then to feel I could deal with an aggressive response
b) At that time younger people ( who in my experience are the worst culprits) would respond positively
Nowadays as a near pensioner with poor health I dare not say anything, especially as younger people have no respect for those they dismissively term as “ boomers” , “ Dinosaurs “ , “Karen’s “ or “Gammons” . I recently got out of my car at a junction to ask some kids , maybe 12 or 13 why two of them had banged their fist on my car boot as they crossed the road whilst I was stationary. The response ?
1.Because we can
2. what you gonna do about it old man ?
3. you can’t touch us
4. We can get the police on you
5. The cops will nick you not us
I have several friends who openly state they avoid public transport as they feel much safer in their cars . How sad .
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It is not new. People would take their ghetto blasters on the bus & Underground during the 1970s. I remember encountering it quite often on some south coast bus routes – I think Hants & Dorset buses had special stickers forbidding it. It was seemingly not confined to the UK either – you can see Spock tackling it in San Francisco (Star Trek IV).
School contract buses in the 1970s were often fitted with radios and the driver frequently played radio 1 loudly in an effort to pacify us.
I don’t think the problem was resolved by draconian penalties but by fashion. The invention of the SONY Walkman made it fashionable to wear headphones. Most earlier cassette players & radios were fitted with headphone outputs but it was not fashionable to use them.
Please don’t let us have more laws that are never enforced or are enforced selectively against certain disadvantaged groups of people. Better to have a society in which it is a cultural norm to show courtesy & respect to each other and for that we need to start by setting a good example at the top.
Whether it’s the unalloyed greed of billionaire business owners who fail to pay the minimum wage and seemingly can’t be held accountable or prime ministers’ that belonged to a club that took delight in burning fivers in front of homeless people, it’s not surprising that some young people grow up thinking that decency is for losers.
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Exactly this. Its a shame there are a fair few commenters who seem to simply whinge about “it was better back then” as if its the solution to the problem.
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Has the rise in young passengers not paying their fare/pushing through ticket barriers arisen since when they had Zip cards, they didn’t have to pay a fare and are therefore not used to paying for their journeys?
i also recall a telephone conversation on a train where the passenger was giving out their credit card number for all to hear. Incredible!
MotCO
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says the party that doesn’t even know what a woman is!
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You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder about issues that don’t effect you. What a stupid comment.
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Personally I think that is a very valid & reasoned point given The Prime Minister stance is somewhat at odds with his position as Leader of the Opposition.
I have to say I am rather surprised that Roger has used his excellent blog to comment directly on an Liberal Democrat amendment rather than simply noting the proposer as this really isn’t a platform for political debate.
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Perhaps automated announcements at regular intervals. Something like……
“We wish all passengers a pleasant journey and request that consideration to others be shown by wearing headphones when using mobile phones, and avoid loud speaker phone conversations. Your cooperation is appreciated”.
Peter Brown
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Well said Peter.
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I can’t tell if you’re being ironic by suggesting that the solution to noise pollution from passengers is more noise pollution from the operator…
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It was a serious suggestion but I appreciate the irony 😀 . I’ve seen videos of journeys on the LA Metro where they have regular announcements that soliciting is not permitted, so things could be a LOT worse.
Peter Brown
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I can honestly say that despite the hours & hours I spend using the truly excellent without parallel Diamond Bus network in the West Midlands I have never come across any form prostitution on it.
However ; & one can only assume the individual concerned was somewhat desperate; whilst waiting on the mean streets of Edgbaston many years ago due to my blonde hair & blue eyes & 6ft 1inch frame I was once mistaken by a elderly male Jaguar driver for a Rentboy…….
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I think “soliciting” has a much broader meaning in the US compared to UK.
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As someone who went to university in Boston I can assure you the same principles apply but as I remember it in the USA , it ibasically refers to the act of requesting or seeking to obtain something from someone. In criminal law , solicitation is the inchoate offense of offering money to someone with the specific intent of persuading them to commit a crime .which includes prostitution amongst others where illegal.
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There are already rules and bylaws about this sort of thing. But they aren’t enforced, and wouldn’t be enforced even if there was a whole new raft of legislation. Typical populist yellow Tory grandstanding.
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As others have suggested, what is proposed by the Lib Dems is already an offence: r.6(1)(l) of The Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990 (SI 1990/1020) provides for an offence that:
The railway byelaws, which date from 2005, provide (byelaw 7) that:
A conviction would require the prosecutor to show that the defendant’s behaviour had cause ‘annoyance’, so presumably a passenger might be required to attend court as a witness. I don’t think offences under these provisions can be addressed through fixed penalty tickets (which might help).
But of course, this is all whistling in the wind. When did you last see an inspector, still less a police constable, on a bus, at least outside London? There is perhaps a (small) chance of staff on the railway being able to summon a BTP presence at a station further down the line—but how likely is the BTP to respond to reports of a passenger refusing to turn down a mobile playing on speaker?
The real problem, as the Lib Dems know very well, is not the absence of legal provision, but the absence of enforcement, not least owing to years of cuts to public funding. And that problem goes well beyond public transport.
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I’ve quite often seen PCs and PCSOs travelling on buses here in Cardiff. Not so much for enforcement as for getting from A to B.
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unfortunately society has regressed post covid. It is definitely frustrating, especially when I’m just trying to zone out looking at the scenery or reading my book and can’t get into it as there is loudness, ultimately you cannot engage and its put up or shut up.
my biggest concern that parents that will not move for me when I am in my wheelchair as they don’t wanna disturb their kid playing on a device.
As much as the lib dems proposal is welcoming but who’d gonna enforce it train & bus staff can barely deal with fares offences
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…and?
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I am not sure how true it is but someone a few years ago overheard a mobile phone conversation on a train where someone was booking let’s say a restaurant for a large group of people. Other people in the carriage could hear the date and time and the name of the person doing the booking. A little later someone rings the restaurant giving the earlier details and saying that they need to cancel the booking. So did people turn up and were turned away!!
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Love it! I really hope that was true & the booker ended up red faced & embarrassed.
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If true, I doubt it they linked the loud phone use to the mysterious meal cancellation.
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Yeah that was a year ago when Sir Andy Street CBE team were providing support to local MP’s in General Election following his defeat in the Mayor Elections.
Shaun Bailey wasn’t relected & therefore work for him ended as it did across the West Midlands as no Conservatives were relected as in Birmingham, Dudley or Sandwell.
Sir Andy Street CBE continues his tireless work across Birmingham & The Black Country.
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The vast majority of bus and train journeys I go on now has the addition of loadspeaker phone calls, dreadful music or TikTok videos being played out loud, from both youngsters and ‘boomers’. It is so incredibly irritating and off putting.
It really is one of the reasons why most of my bus and train journeys are now just made for geeky reasons, rather than actually using it for work or leisure.
I really don’t mind noise, such as lots of conversations and children playing, but there is something very different and incredibly irritating about hearing noise from phones.
In my car, I can have peace and quiet, and I use my car more and more.
AMB
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On a somewhat different & positive note, I was travelling from London Waterloo to my home in the New Forest some years ago following a particularly hard working day. The train in question was going to split at Southampton so I gathered up all my stuff & boarded one of the last five carriages. After hearing the first part of the train de-couple & depart, I realised I’d left my mobile on it! When I arrived home my wife enquired why I hadn’t answered her calls to which I then explained what had happened. For some reason I wasn’t bothered because my name & home number were in the mobile case. Sure enough within an hour of getting through the door the home phone rang. A guy travelling in the first five coaches heard my mobile ring & realised it had been left behind. I duly travelled over to Poole to collect it & thank the guy in question for his honesty & prompt response. Suffice to say, I also rewarded him. Kind of restores your faith in human nature.
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Just tell them their music is absolute garbage, their dress sense is also garbage and the final brilliant one, you’ll be on this garbage planet with all it’s never ending disasters, wars, climate change etc a lot longer than me, and I ain’t one bit bothered about trying to save it by being kind to the planet for you lot so enjoy!
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Ukraine is at war with Russia
The Middle East is in flames
Everyone is facing a cost of living crisis.
Businesses are hit with rising costs from new legislation.
The wet & loony socks with sandals brigrade of tofu chewing & EU loving Liberal Democrats whose idiots would happily ban anything that anyone else enjoys answer to the above:
Introduce legislation which will be totally unforceable to ban Greatest Hits Radio from buses & trains.
It’s about time these nutters actually joined the real world the rest of us live in.
Just utterly uterlly pathetic!!!!!!!!
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Clearly a “Daily Mail” reader, with such intelligent analysis of the situation…!
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GOOD GOD NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only printed media I buy is TV Choice as a I pick the Metro up 5 days a week which is avaliable complimentary on our excellent Diamond Bus network in the West Midlands & despite common ownership far superior to Daily Mail .
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Quick nurse – Richard’s back out of bed and not taken his medication. The most spittle flecked bit of prose I’ve seen for a long time – sounds like you are a disciple of Suella Braverman. Surprised you didn’t pop in a few more rather tired old tropes…
Still, come back to us on Friday when the Tory party gets another rinsing in the local elections.
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Not sure why you would mention the Conservative Party my only connection with them is working with my good friend Sir Andy Street CBE who continues to provide a positive contribution to Brum.
As for medication if I didn’t take my cancer drugs I quite simply wouldn’t currently be on the Diamond 14A enjoying the unrivalled premium service Rotala provide to the West Midlands.
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Sorry… is this the same Richard Jones who claimed to be part of the team behind Shaun Bailey’s unsuccessful 2024 re-election?
I’m glad your medication is supporting your physical recovery.
Not certain that a seven year old Streetlite is a premium service, or can be called unrivalled.
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Proving WRONG the armchair pundits utter drivel and waffle that many unfortunately peddle on Rogers excellent website, many of whom wouldn’t know what a quality bus service is even it fell on them.
Just sitting back and relaxing with Absolute 80s blasting out on a brand new 74 plate Enviro 200 of Diamond Bus which has just departed Merry Hill for Dudley on Service 226 smack on time with he usual friendly professional driver underlying the top quality premium bus service Rotala provides in the West Midlands County.
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It is totally unrivalled when they are the only operator providing a bus service between Dudley & Halesowen on a Sunday 🤣
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Via Tividale ………
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Not certain what the drivel is that you speak of. You were on a Streetlite on Sunday – that was true. Yesterday you travelled on an e200mmc – be still my beating heart – one of just three nearly new ones that Diamond WM have.
A quality bus service? I think if you perhaps travelled elsewhere, such as Go South Coast, Brighton and Hove, Transdev Harrogate (and others), you’d appreciate that there’s a lot more quality out there.
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I have regularly used Go Ahead around Poole & Bournemouth & have usually found rude drivers, filthy vehicles & poor punctuality. How anyone could image them to be better than Rotala in the West Midlands beggers belief.
It should also be remembered Go Ahead once owned Diamond Bus & made such a mess of its operation it sold it after a £1m wrote down on the Balance Sheet.
This is also the same Go Ahead that cheated the taxpayer out of millions of pounds when it was proved to be defrauding one of its rail franchises?
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I haven’t experienced that with Go South Coast and whatever happened at a train operating OpCo has no bearing on the excellent standard of operation that has rightly been recognised by the award of an MBE to Andrew Wickham.
Meanwhile, I can safely say that two of the worst journeys I have ever experienced were with Diamond, of which one was a truly dangerous sprint around the backstreets of Willenhall in an e200 that was aimed, not driven.
Not forgetting the two Diamond SE drivers that nearly had a fight whilst arguing with each other on another journey. Nor the driver at Bilston who didn’t have a cloth to wipe down the cab (Covid times – disinfecting the cab) and had to use a copy of the Metro instead.
I will say that Diamond are much improved and actually provide a reasonable service but to say that they are exemplars of the industry? Sorry, but it’s you and only you that is peddling drivel and waffle.
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I only comment on using Diamond Bus West Midlands & whatever your experience in the past according to Transport for West Midlands data they have highest customer satisfaction ratings & punctuality levels together with some of the lowest fares in England in West Midlands County.
If you don’t use Diamond Bus West Midlands daily how can you possibly judge the company.
I am also amazed you dismiss organisational fraud by GO AHEAD of over £50m so lightly . It’s hard to fathom how many excuses individuals make of Go Ahead given its past corporate reputation.
As for Diamond the passengers on the 74plate Sprinter on the 24H all seem very happy with thier service & against the whines of armchair bus enthusiasts that’s all that actually matters !
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I might ask how you can make even more extreme (and non-specific of rude drivers and filthy vehicles) criticisms of Go South Coast? Not only is that not borne out by independent evaluation (as bus operator of the year on three separate occasions), my examples are not borne of being an armchair enthusiast. Moreover, they are specific examples.
As for your usual boring Go Ahead smears… The behaviour of a set of individuals at one opco in the rail industry is hardly reflective of the quality of service in a bus company. The idea that every Go Ahead employee acts in such a manner is ridiculous, let alone that it has any bearing on service delivery.
Were we to take forward your principle, then we take the inference that Rotala must have be a bit dodgy because one of the major shareholders was Nigel Wray; a man who famously channelled Saracens players wages in order to circumvent the RFU salary cap rules and ultimately led to the enforced demotion of the club. It is a false equivalence and you know it.
Now off you pop to your accountant’s armchair.
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Sadly no one wants to be reminded of the truth about how GO AHEAD cheated the tax payer of over £50m in an elaborate fraud.
Personally if I acted in the same way as them I would no doubt be struck off by the ICAEW however I set myself higher standards as do Diamond Bus.
I have never found Go South Coast to meet the excellent standards of Diamond Bus West Midlands
Still if you are happy with their second class ethical standards enjoy them as I currently sit on another 74 plate Diamond enjoying the first class service they provide to the West Midlands County – Each to its own.
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As an ardent rugby fan, I was disgusted by Nigel Wray’s dishonesty as much as I was by Southern’s as a taxpayer. Dishonesty is dishonesty, irrespective of the amount. However, it would be foolish to judge Diamond on that connection in the same manner as it would be to judge the quality of service provided by Go South Coast because of the behaviour of other individuals. It is absurd comparison.
I might direct you to Transdev Harrogate, McGills, Lynx (Norfolk) and Faresaver (Wiltshire), Nottingham City Transport, and Cardiff Bus as operators who are better than Diamond Bus. Leave your armchair and experience those operators – you might learn something.
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Did you really expect anything else from the self-styled “best mate” of Sir Andrew of Street CBE NTSC MGB?
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Yawn 🥱
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STILL WAITING for you to provide the evidence as requested to prove why you keep stating that my experience with Diamond Bus in the West Midlands County is incorrect………
I am more than happy to remove my comments about Diamond Bus West Midlands currently if you can prove otherwise.
So Why All Of Sudden After Attacking My Stance On Diamond Bus West Midlands for days THE SILENCE ?
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the one change I’ve noticed recently is long video calls where people act like they’re in the same room. They’ll go for periods of 5 mins of no interaction at all while scrolling on another phone and then resume like they’d been sitting on a sofa together
Dave
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Have to say I regularly take part in Zoom & MS Teams meetings online when I am on Diamond Bus 💎 as part of work.
Regular collegues have told me they aren’t bothered but it does take some new contributors by surprise when they realise I am on a bus & some are surprised by the NSA Onboard, especially the legendary Rowley Regis announcement in The Black Country” The Next Stop Is Bell End………
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what I do as a bus driver if someone is talking on the phone I play a massage like this is the bus to ect so they carn’t hear what’s been said on phone or just ask the passenger to keep it quiet this is why not having a screen by the driver helps because you can talk to the passengers
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I would add to the antisocial noise the girls and women who have to squeal and squark loudly also the braindead mothers with a screaming child which they are compketely incapable of comforting.
John
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I’m delighted that Richard Jones conducts Zoom and Teams meetings on Diamond Buses.
This will no doubt deter other passengers and encourage them to use the far superior services of National Express West Midlands.
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Far from it I also do it on the top deck of National Express West Midlands vehicles depending on which West Midlands Bus service I am on other than thier E200S single deckers where you can’t hear yourself think above all the rattles & whining from the engine.
Ironically along with the ICAEW & Bank of England one of most common Zoom/Ms Teams meetings is with Transport for West Midlands………..
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I recently witnessed an intervention on a GWR train from Basingstoke to Reading. A man dressed in a business suit went up to a young woman who was playing something loud on her phone and he offered her the use of his headphones! This spooked her and she dashed off into the next carriage.
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We have a love of legislation and think it is the answer to whatever ill it is supposed to address, it rarely is. Yes it is irritating especially so for people with some disabilities but if a bit of noise is the worst thing that happens to you then you haven’t done too badly overall. If you can’t do anything about it, change the way you think about it.
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Fully agree although thier own principles would suggest otherwise I would have thought the Liberal Democrats should use valuable parliamentary time on tighter enforcement of stopping drug dealers doing trades on the top deck of vehicles in the inner cities than banning Ken Bruce & Simon Mayo 🤣
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That is completely the wrong attitude to it.
I have tried to tolerate the noise from people’s phones, but even trying to read a book or even using noise cancelling earphones doesn’t stop it from irritating me.
If ever I had to be interrogated, all my captors would have to do would be to play TikTok videos on full volume through a tinny smartphone and I’d tell them everything.
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You are totally wrong as someone who has worked in Whitehall amendments such as the idiotic Liberal Democrats one take time & resources from legislation that is essential .
Drafting of ammendments by third rate politicians is simply a vanity exercise with no regard to the time & cost to the staff.
There is NO way this legislation can ever be fully enforced the spectrum its simply an idiotic reaction by an older generation totally out of touch with current realities & as such should by abhorred by the majority who quite simply couldn’t care less who plays what on a bus frankly!
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l hope l don’t sit next to anyone as arrogant as you anytime soon!
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I’m 49. I hate listening to other people’s noise on the bus.
Does that make me part of the “older generation totally out of touch with current realities”?
No.
What utter codswallop.
Darryl in Dorset.
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I am 57 it certainly doesn’t bother me – perhaps your overly sensitive & bus usage in the real world is not for you………
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As a recently retired service bus driver (I now do quieter school work!), the issue of loud music and phone calls latterly drove me to distraction. So far as was possible, I operated a zero tolerance policy and was frequently thanked by other passengers. On return from holiday on one occasion I wondered how long into my first shift it would be before I had to speak to a passenger about this issue – all of 17 minutes!!
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Staff at J D Wetherspoon public houses have this problem too: customers bringing in a whole host of devices to watch television programmes, especially sports events on on premium channels. I do not have any mobile device but carry earpieces to plug into internet terminals at public libraries. I have used them just to block out disturbances on occasions when out and about.
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It’s typical of this country that the proposed answer to anti-social behaviour is not to enforce the existing legislation which already makes that behaviour illegal but to create more laws that doubtless won’t be enforced.
It’s also typical of this country that we have a former bus company manager bragging here about breaking those laws himself.
Ho hum.
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Roger seems to have also provoked the BBC. Jeremy Vine featured the very same topic on his radio show this morning.
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https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/misophonia-headphone-dodgers-tfl-unbearable-b1224866.html
Issue has got coverage in Evening Standard.
Following a grim experience on Metrobus southbound route 271 with someone talking out loud for an hour.
Another 271 journey started in a similar vein in Brighton. When passing Jack and Jill I turned to the person and said “I had come on this bus for a quiet ride on the countryside”. They apologised and kept the noise down
A month later I caught another 271 sat down and turned to find the same person siting opposite who sheepishly said I am going to keep quiet.
Nottingham City Transport had excellent bus behaviour notices which disappeared recently.
Thirty five teenage school children boarded NCT bus I was on, they all got their phones out not a sound. It can be done.
The onus should be on the individual making the noise.
Something like
WE hear U
WE don’t want to
U can mute it
Over to U, ssssh
Or it needs to be See It, Say it, Sort it type of message
Hear it
Sssh it
Mute it
(With that Your country needs you man with finger over mouth)
More useful than an advert about a sightseeing service locals will never use.
John Nicholas
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On this blog Richard Jones appears to be in a minority of 1 as not being bothered about anti social noise and even producing same. He is also in a similar minority thinking that Diamond runs a decent bus service.
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It is exactly 1 year today that the electroate went to the polls in the West Midlands Combined Authority & decided democratically that it wanted a change by 1504 votes of Mayor
How dignified Andy has been & he has continued to pay a prominent role in public life.
During the 7 years he was in charge of West Midlands Bus he achieved the following:
We are so honoured & proud and send our thanks that despite everything still the biggest champion for buses in Brum & The Black Country is –
Sir Andy Street CBE……
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The stuff about Andy Street… no relevance when talking about Diamond Bus.
As for your request for contrary information… There’s no point in providing other evidence. You’ll just deride the source, say it’s not applicable, or state some irrelevancies – that’s the usual modus operandi.
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Interesting- You cannot obviously substinate your comments with REAL data about Diamond Bus in the West Midlands County.
I repeat you show me the CURRENT data you are basing your comments on & I WILL withdraw my comments about Diamond Bus
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Wading into this and recognising that statistics need always to be placed in context. DfT figures showed that bus patronage increased by 6.5% in the West Midlands in 2024, which was a greater increase than Tyne & Wear (where a six week strike at Go North East had depressed figures) and South Yorkshire. However, it was notably lower than the other “metropolitan counties” (as was) with Merseyside recording an 8.5% increase in patronage, Greater Manchester 11.6% and West Yorkshire at 12%. Whilst West Mids will have been reduced by NXWM’s week long dispute, the impact of will not explain the lower passenger growth in West Midlands than might have been expected.
Then we have Transport Focus, whose 2019 bus passenger survey was actually quoted by the West Midlands Combined Authority as a good news story. Their results for 2024 show an increased satisfaction of 76% (up from 73% from the previous year) but still far behind the 2019 figure of 85% and towards the low end of the 39 areas surveyed.
Then we have TrustPilot. Granted, this is not a survey in the usual accepted manner but it does invite individuals to provide their views about businesses. It may be argued that it invites people to offer more negative than positive views, but again, it provides a relative indicator of a business against similar in their market. Not surprisingly, some of those generally accorded in the industry score relatively well – Brighton & Hove 3.6, Lynx 3.2, Reading Buses 3.3, Go South Coast 2.6 whilst National Express (coaches) score an impressive 4.0. Diamond score 1.4 and NXWM 1.3.
Moreover, at the UK Bus Awards, Diamond North West has rightly been picked out with a number of nominations. Diamond Bus West Midlands has not.
I wouldn’t say that Diamond Bus West Midlands is a bad operation. It has improved over recent years, most notably at Kidderminster where the depot looked like a scrapyard about 6/7 years ago and buses were in a baffling array of liveries. There has been some fleet improvement and they have clearly benefitted from the retrenchment of NXWM post Covid.
I don’t agree with May 1 3.13pm that they don’t provide a decent service. In fact, I think they are ok. However, to continually state that Diamond Bus West Midlands are, in some way, exemplars of the UK bus industry is simply not backed up with either facts nor opinion, or recognition by their peers. In my opinion, and it is just that, they’re not the best operation in the group (that’s Preston Bus, followed by North West) nor the worst (that’s South East). They’re just ok.
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OK fully accept your points but my comments differentiate the West Midlands County operations separately from the service delivered in Staffordshire & Worcestershire.
Thank you for analysing this in such depth I simply comment from personal use as I am currently waiting for its 4H.
On the subject of statistics just 3600 responses were given to Mayor RICHARD PARKER consultation on the future of West Midlands Bus from a population of 2.9m
Parker claims the overwhelming response of the respondents was backing his proposed changes.
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Ok prove me otherwise Diamond Bus West Midlands doesn’t provide an excellent service CURRENTLY in the West Midlands County?
Show me the data that proves your point & I will happily cease my posts.
Over to you……….
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Forgot to add another round of major retrenchment is planned by National Express West Midlands in June across Birmingham & The Black Country which will now doubt again benefit Rotala
National Express West Midlands are also planning major frequently cuts on its trunk BCT services some of which such as the 4 , 5, 6, 14 18 , 45 , 47, 65 , 67 came in this week already.
NXWM does given its disastrous results this week appear to be a company now in terminal decline.
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Just as a matter of record John Gunn Chairman of Rotala has retired after long service to the industry.
Mr Gunn helped guide Diamond Bus West Midlands in the West Midlands County to one of the main Bus ndustry leaders & premium service providers in England.& as an operator providing an invaluable service in many other parts of England. also.
We wish Mr Gunn a happy retirement and thank him for all his hard work at Rotala over the years which is so much appreciated by those of us who use the company daily.
Mr Gunn is succeeded by Bob Dunn who brings his unrivalled experience to the role & will continue to support Rotalas excellent Chief Executive Simon Dunn in his new position.
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One week on from Rogers article & it would appear that a number of bus companies have agreed with me that the legislation planned by the Liberals won’t or cant practically be enforced & so is an utter waste of time & money.
Sitting on the Diamond 14A I can’t see any objectons to Erasure & its ultimate gay anthem currently playing on Absolute 80s.
Interestingly the operator quoted in the article is Konnectbus,, now isn’t that an operator lauded by the armchair bound keyboard warriors who sadly frequent this site ; who lets face it – wouldn’t really understand or use a real bus operation ; owned by Go Ahead……….
https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/25123889.can-fined-playing-music-transport-norwich/
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In Essex/Suffolk Go Ahead owned Hedingham and Chambers have just been rolled in Konnectbus, two companies when independent ran really reliable services but since becoming part of Go Ahead beaten up old buses have had a new coat of paint and the public told what they will do but since Covid they have been dreadfully unreliable with frequent cancellations because of breakdowns and lack of drivers. Tony
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Fascinating story in The Independent proving once & for all how out of touch those wet Liberals with thier useless bill & the rest of the moaning nannies are about personal space noise on public transport.
Quite simply my view is simple if you don’t like find another means of transport & let the rest of us get on with our journeys!
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/train-quiet-carriage-rules-b2751454.html
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I agree that using speakers on public transport is often “rude, uncaring and anti-social.” However, I think this discussion starts off on the wrong foot by thinking mainly in terms of enforcement, and assuming that human nature has suddenly got worse, and two examples will demonstrate it.
In the 2000s, music piracy was rife and devastating the commercial music industry. Today it’s rare, even in the old piracy heartlands in East Asia. Why? Because of tougher sentences & police raids on teenagers? Because the Chinese mafia suddenly developed a conscience? No, it’s because streamers like Spotify made it cheap and easy to listen to as much music as you want. They provided what people wanted in an affordable, convenient and cool way.
In the 1990s and 2000s, a certain street corner in my town was occupied by teenagers every night. They played loud music, dropped litter, and harassed passers-by (either to buy fags & booze for them, or just straight bullying). Today that street corner is empty. Why? Because tougher sentences & police raids cleared the streets? Because the teenagers today have better morals? No, it’s because smartphones provide teenagers’ needs for social interaction and entertainment in an affordable, convenient and cool way.
We need to take the same approach to loud music/calls on public transport. Find out the need that is not being met, and provide in an affordable, convenient and cool way.
The need is surely the obvious one: portable, personal audio devices. We’ll call it in-ear audio, with the obvious example being earphones.
The equally obvious comeback is that earphones are available in shops, but they aren’t being used. But they were also available in shops in the early 2010s and then they were widely used. That’s why I mentioned the ‘cool’ factor above. I realize many readers of this blog probably think: who cares about being cool? I understand (I’m very much uncool!). But for many people, being cool is everything. You might not like it, but public transport operators have to deal with that reality and its affects on passenger behaviour. And it’s not just young people either. Last year I suggested my 70-something mother use her earphones and she refused: “I can’t wear those!” Actually, she frequently wears them around the house, but she didn’t want them to wear them in the garden where she could be seen! So what affects how people look at in-ear audio?
In one word: Apple. In the 2000s, it felt every bus stop in Britain had a display ad showing the silhouette of a trendy young adult wearing those iconic white earphones with their white wires. The iPod advertising was so cultural significant it has its own Wikipedia article. And the advertising worked: wired earphones were cool; Apple’s own even had a trendy, trademarked name: “EarPods”. And they were convenient: they came in the box with every iPod and iPhone.
But in 2016, Apple, removed the 3.5mm audio socket from their phones, replacing it with an expensive proprietary connector. On the same day they launched wireless Airpods, which had to be purchased separately. In 2020, Apple stopped providing free EarPods with iPhones. What happened? Well, Apple have changed their strategy. In-ear audio used to be given away for free, but now they see it as a way to make money, lots of money. In 2014, they spent $3bn buying the Beats brand of premium headphones, which start at £99. The cheapest AirPods on sale are £129 and the most expensive are £500. In order to get people to pay that sort of money, Apple spends vast amounts on advertising. The message? Cool people wear expensive in-ear audio, not cheap wired headphones.
So for young people today, in-ear audio devices are either unaffordable or inconvenient & uncool, as a direct result of shifts in both supply and demand brought about by Apple’s advertising and specifications. I think this is the reason why loud music/calls are a problem on public transport in 2015, given that they weren’t and in a way that they weren’t in 2005 or 2015.
In order to respond to this, public transport operators need to make in-ear audio affordable, convenient & cool at the point of use. I think this requires an industry-wide Scheme with an essential part and a luxury extra.
Firstly, every bus driver and train conductor should have affordable earphones to sell at close to cost price. If a passenger gets on playing music from their phone, “shall I add some earphones with your ticket?” is a lot less confrontational than “you can’t get on playing that!” Asda sells perfectly good earphones for £2.50 so a large order from the bus industry should be able to sell to passengers at the same price. I realize bus drivers don’t have a lot of space to store them, but you could carry a few boxes just in a coat pocket. Metro mayors might be interested in making them even cheaper for concession holders. But they need to be cool as well. After some pilots, give them a trendy name and roll the Scheme out nationally with an advertising campaign. The ads would look like their selling earphones, but under the hood it would have another message: if you travel on public transport, you’re expected to use in-ear audio and it’s affordable, convenient & cool to do.
The more money you spend on that advertising campaign, the more successful the Scheme will be. But who’s going to pay for that in the age of bus fare caps and 2% TOC fees? That’s where the second step comes in. Frankly, Apple created this problem, so they should pay for it. The industry should lobby the government to impose (a) an ~5% tax on any device that can stream audio from the Internet but does not have a 3.5mm audio jack, and (b) another ~5% tax on any such device that costs more than £200 and doesn’t have free in-ear audio in the box. The revenue would be reserved for the Scheme. This can go one of two ways. Apple might pay the tax, in which case the Scheme will be awash with so much money that they won’t just be able to fund advertising, they’ll be able give earphones away with every bus ticket! More likely, it be like the plastic bags tax and the sugar tax. Very few manufacturers will pay it because they will change their behaviour. Apple still provides free earphones with every iPhone in France, because it’s a legal requirement and they backed down immediately when the EU required USB-C ports. I expect that the tax would raise peanuts, but device manufacturers would be incentivized by competition to made their own free in-ear audio products cool again. And that might make carriages and bus quiet again.
Technical footnote: Here I have used 3.5mm jacks as the standard for cheap in-ear audio. In some developing countries, Bluetooth headphones are now so cheap that wired headphones only use the wire for power supply. I think that’s because they don’t pay the Bluetooth licensing and patent fees. If the government gave the Scheme an opt-out from those fees for devices sold on board public transport, then it might be possible for the Scheme to standardize on Bluetooth instead for tax (a).
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Apologies for the numerous punctuation and grammar errors. I am used to writing comments on another platform where you can edit after posting.
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Richard. I am not an armchair enthusiast as you seem to always target. I use buses all over the country and the world.
My view of Diamond is they are ok. To be fair to them they operate buses in places that just aren’t big bus territories.The buses are ok, but I’ve not been on one that has next stop announcements for example which will soon be a regulation (obviously loads of other operators fall into that category too). Bus stops tend to be a mess on places like Kidderminster – no stop info, I do get they are the responsibility of the council but if I was running a bus company I wouldn’t want my services to be portrayed in such of poor ways with no timetables at stops or poorly maintained shelters. I’d be pushing he council to improve their infrastructure.
So yes, Diamond are ok but they aren’t as good as lots of operators and dare I say it as some of the Go Ahead companies.
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Bus stops & information in Worcestershire are the responsibility of Worcestershire County Council & not Rotala.
Within the West Midlands County Transport for West Midlands is responsible placing a levy on operators
Currently we have an out of control war in the Middle East, Russian aggression in mainland Europe, China & Taiwan at loggerheads coupled with a stagnated economy in the UK & the Liberals answer a totally unenforceable law that is a total waste of parliamentary time & resources. Says It All About the Liberals & its supporters priorities.
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Richard. I am not an armchair enthusiast as you seem to always target. I use buses all over the country and the world.
My view of Diamond is they are ok. To be fair to them they operate buses in places that just aren’t big bus territories.
The buses are ok, but I’ve not been on one that has next stop announcements for example which will soon be a regulation (obviously loads of other operators fall into that category too). Bus stops tend to be a mess on places like Kidderminster – no stop info, I do get they are the responsibility of the council but if I was running a bus company I wouldn’t want my services to be portrayed in such of poor ways with no timetables at stops or poorly maintained shelters. I’d be pushing he council to improve their infrastructure.
So yes, Diamond are ok but they aren’t as good as lots of operators and dare I say it as some of the Go Ahead companies.
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