Tuesday 10th September 2024
As the mood music from Government turns up the volume of “local communities put back in the driving seat”; “new powers to take back control of local bus services” and “public control to be delivered faster and cheaper” with yesterday’s DfT announcement of its upcoming “bus revolution”…

…recent developments in Derbyshire and Staffordshire vividly demonstrate what might prove to be the last vestiges of deregulated competition are alive and well, including one reducing the number of inter-urban bus routes operated jointly by two bus companies on a coordinated timetable, from nine to eight.

It’s the long established route X38 which provides a fast link along the A38 trunk road between Derby and Burton upon Trent and is now a hotbed of fierce competition between its two previously cooperative bus operators, Arriva and trentbarton.

Last week Arriva tore up the previous understanding between the companies whereby a coordinated 20 minute frequency applied…

… and replaced it with its own 20 minute service while an indignant trentbarton responded with its own 15 minute frequency alongside that. Buses now leave Burton upon Trent at 15, 35 and 55 (Arriva) and 10, 25, 40, 55 (trentbarton).

We’ve gone from three buses an hour along this corridor to an unsustainable and unprofitable seven buses an hour.

As well as an old style bus war on the road there’s been a war of words between the two operators.

“Trentbarton Managing Director Tom Morgan has criticised Arriva Midlands for what he says is its “bizarre and perplexing move” to end a 30-year partnership by those operators and their predecessors on route X38 between Burton-upon-Trent and Derby.”
“In an obvious slight directed at trentbarton, Arriva Midlands Head of Commercial Toby France says that the group is “happy to be able to deliver a really good bus service that I am sure will be really well received.” Trentbarton has long described itself as “the really good bus company”. In what may be another intended snub, Mr France notes that Arriva has “a strong record of reliability and punctuality.”
“Mr Morgan has questioned the decision to end the current collaborative approach. “The unilateral and surprise decision by Arriva to run X38 buses at the exact time of ours marks the disappointing end of what has been a friendly partnership which since 1995 has worked well for the public on this key connection between Burton on Derby,” he says.
“It is a bizarre and perplexing move by a massive company owned by a USA private equity firm against a locally run, locally owned bus company which has been serving the people of the East Midlands for 110 years.”
“He adds a belief that Arriva is trying “to muscle us out” from the X38 corridor and says that Trentbarton was “blindsided” by the decision of Arriva. Mr Morgan alleges that the Wellglade Group business asked Derby City Council (DCC) to facilitate a meeting to work through the matter, “but Arriva would not engage.””
The Route One article goes on to state Arriva refutes that allegation saying it approached trentbarton via Derby City Council in April to explore the evolution of the X38, but that “trentbarton chose not to engage in the discussion at that time and we have had no representation from [it] since.”
Arriva has taken the opportunity to extend its enhanced X38 so it now terminates in Derby’s bus station rather than the previous arrangement in the city’s Corporation Street where trentbarton’s X38 continues to stand between journeys.
I took a ride on the route last Thursday to see how the ‘X38 bus war’ was going.
Despite roadworks on the northbound A38 causing slow going where the busy two-lane dual carriageway is reduced to one lane, buses from both companies were keeping well to time.

There must be padding in the timetable as my Arriva bus leaving Burton on time at 13:35, having crawled at a snail’s pace for ten minutes in the A38’s queuing traffic, arrived into Derby bus station at 14:11, just one minute late with the driver making a quick turn around and left on his next journey on time at 14:15.

And, yes, that’s an Arriva leaflet with timetable on the reverse, promoting the new 20 minute service and its extension to the bus station.

Indeed, Arriva staff were manning a table by the X38 departure stand in the bus station with A4 timetables of Derby’s city bus routes printed off from its website following changes made on 31st August, which was good to see.

Over in the former Arriva travel office opposite that pitch …

… there was the usual display of trentbarton timetables including one for its newly enhanced X38 as well as the Arriva promotional leaflet.

It’s nice to see printed leaflets promoting the route as I always see passengers gratefully taking copies which were also available on board the trentbarton buses.

And it looked as though there was another leaflet produced by trentbarton although I didn’t get hold of a copy.

Another thing trentbarton are renowned for is strong branding and you do notice the different approach between the two competitors as their buses compete up and down the A38.

As I travelled along the route last Thursday it came as no surprise there are far too many buses for the number of passengers travelling. It was also noticeable how the extension into Derby bus station is benefitting Arriva with good numbers observed boarding there.

I don’t know if Arriva had wanted to introduce this extension when it says it asked the Council to broker a meeting with trentbarton back in April, nor do I know the arrangements for access into the bus station, but if I was at trentbarton I would seriously consider extending its journeys on the X38 to the bus station and reduce the frequency to every 20 minutes slotted between Arriva’s journeys to create a combined 10 minute coordinated timetable. Perhaps, in due course, with good sense prevailing this could reduce to a more realistic 15 minute frequency between both operators and see if that improvement on the former 20 minute coordinated timetable generates more passengers.

Just a thought.

The current situation is simply unsustainable and someone needs to broker a resolution.
Meanwhile back over the border in Staffordshire Arriva are facing another competitive bout from a new kid on the block in the form of a company called Bus Link.

This new company was incorporated last year and started new route X66 between Lichfield and Tamworth just a few weeks ago on 5th August. It’s owned by James Boddice, a familiar figure on the West Midlands bus scene. He used to run the impressive Midland Classic bus company before selling it to Rotala Group owned Diamond Bus in August 2022.

The X66 runs half hourly and competes directly with Arriva’s hourly X65 which also runs between Lichfield and Tamworth alongside a second hourly route, the 765 which takes a slightly longer route between the two towns via Whittington.

I took a ride on the X66 last Thursday morning as well as observing buses passing in the other direction on the 765, X65 and X66.

There were three sets of temporary traffic lights on the 18 minute end to end journey but when I travelled they were not causing much disruption…

…but I assume there must have been a problem earlier as Arriva’s buses were all running late. For example, the 11:15 Arriva X65 from Tamworth left just after 11:35 and the Bus Link X66 at 11:40 (which I was on) soon caught it up on the way to Lichfield.

Numbers travelling were evenly spread between the two operators with passengers pretty much catching the first bus that came along indicating Bus Link has already made its mark in establishing a presence as no one seemed puzzled by a different coloured bus arriving at the bus stop.

Departures from Lichfield to Tamworth are at 10 and 40 on Bus Link and 20 (X65) and 40 (765) on Arriva although the latter changes during the late afternoon. From Tamworth Bus Link buses depart at 10 and 40 and Arriva at 15 (X65) and 45 (765). Both operators display departure times in the respective bus stations with Bus Link’s presentation easy to see.

Arriva’s X65 takes a slightly different route into and out of Lichfield (taking 20 minutes all told) with the 765 operating via Whittington taking 30 minutes. Bus Link’s X66 takes 18 minutes.

There’s a brightly coloured leaflet promoting the X66 (available on the buses) but nothing for the established 765/X65. Bus Link are currently offering a £3.50 ‘Special day return’ promoted on its bus stop panels.

Prior to the X66 beginning, Bus Link has been operating a tendered circular route 31/32 in Lichfield across the morning and afternoon peak periods.
It’ll be interesting to see how this new hotspot of competition develops. James has a good track record for carving out a niche operation (as he did with Midlands Classic) but this new development is not quite so niche and he’s facing a reinvigorated Arriva and a DfT playing that rather loud mood music of public control.
Roger French
Blogging timetable: 06:00 TThS.
Comments on today’s blog are welcome but please keep them relevant to the blog topic, avoid personal insults and add your name (or an identifier). Thank you.

The 820/821 circular was D9 operated in the 1970’s. It really came into its own when becoming a circular with the amalgamation of the 822. When I was last back in Lichfield it was a minibus operation and emptyish at that. The city has doubled in size and passenger numbers seemingly halved.
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Bus Travel in parts of Staffordshire has declined rapidly due to.the utter incompetence and unpunctualy of Jullian Peddles Chaserider operation based in Cannock which a total laughing stock in.the West Midlands.
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I was in Abbots Bromley on Saturday and travelled on Diamond to and from Burton. Journey out was rattling all over the vehicle, journey back (to Uttoxeter) had a route learning driver who left 10 minutes late and arrived on time. Both were 16 plate Diamond liveried vehicles. The 402A back to AB took the pretty way, was a former Midland Classic vehicle and arrived at AB early. Nice vehicle though.
Chaserider were present in Uttoxeter and looked very down at heal indeed. Dull red Solos, with significant overspray and not welcoming at all.
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Ilyas Hafezji is the current operations manager at Diamond Bus East Midlands & is doing an excellent job in a period of uncertainty for the industry.
He & his team at Rotala recently received wide spread acclaim for thier sucessfull operation of prestige the LIV GOLF ⛳️ tournament Park & Ride at the JCB Golf Course in Uttoxeter attended by visitors from across the globe including myself for the weekend which required 20 DoubleDeckers. – Top Man
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Diamond East Midland isn’t doing an excellent job. As of my recent visits, there was still a huge amount of late running.
Buses dumped all over Burton High Street meaning many other buses were loading in the middle of the road because they couldn’t get onto their stand.
Their bus open data entries have errors on them.
Tickets printing without company logos on (takes a few minutes to set up on Ticketer but somehow it’s been happening for months!). Buses in many different liveries.
Promotions all over Swad for Midland Classic that Diamond haven’t removed. Including promoting routes that no longer run/don’t run as advertised.
Diamond East Midlands is far from ‘doing an excellent job’. They are no better than Let’s Go when you look at how things actually are!
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Diamond East Midlands have also gone through and butchered the destination blind files so much they don’t fit the front of most buses; instead of having a file for each destination type there’s one file and size for all!
Brandon Morley.
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Having heard similar criticism in the past about Rotalas West Midlands operations which have been turned round successfully given Midland Classic is still be integrated into the business as a whole & I no doubt Rotala will do the same in due course here.
As I stated previously from my own personal use the prestigious Park & Ride contract for the recent LIV GOLF was managed excellently over the three days duration of the event for those visitors using the service.
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focusing on a private contract and leaving locals in the lerch, the quality has nosedived since the change, a few new(ish) streetdecks does not make a good operator
a inconvenienced local,
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As I stated previously from my own personal use the prestigious Park & Ride contract for the recent LIV GOLF was managed excellently over the three days duration of the event for those visitors using the service.
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Not certain how a 3 day private hire offsets the lacklustre performance in Burton?
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Unfortunately a similar situation applies to most of the UK. Decking bus service with poor reliability and high levels of cancellations.
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Some mistake surely! He’s always popping up in a well known magazine telling readers just how much better off we’d be if the elected authorities butted out and let the private sector get on with it.
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I suggest you refer to Tony Hunters excellent West Midlands Bus Photo Forum for a daily account from users of the disastrous basket case that is Jullian Peddles Chaserider.
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| When I was last back in Lichfield it was a minibus operation and emptyish
| at that
Lichfield has struggled to support a decent bus service since the late 1970s. Those D9 operated circulars survived the introduction of the Chaserider and Mercian MAP schemes by Midland Red OC, but by deregulation they were definitely limping along. Midland Red (North) tried introducing minibuses with the usual fanfare and initial success but (if I remember rightly) they were withdrawn as part of MRN’s Night of the Long Knives in 1987, being replaced by Midland Fox’s attempt to provide a similar service which also foundered.
Over the subsequent decades various operators have tried to provide Lichfield City Services but none have been successful. Lichfield is an expensive place to live, so residents are more likely to be in the car owning demographic than not and the road network outside the city favours car use over buses. The same can be said for the whole local area; Midland Red’s MAP scheme network can still be recognised in today’s network around Cannock and Lichfield albeit with a few tweaks.
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Now they are stuck with Chaserider in Lichfield especially the total laughing stock of thier terrible operation of the 35 which I use from Walsall to Lichfield & I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy, well perhaps Richard Parker as its his service!
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Chaserider do not operate the Lichfield Towns…
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Chaserider operate the 36/A I was referring too from Walsall to Lichfield unless I was an imaging it last week – no I was them unfortunately my imagination can’t conjour an operator as awful as them.
They also operate the equally awfull 60 62 , 764, 826 & 828. while the 31 & 32 are operated by the excellent Diamond Bus & you honestly think I wouldnt know that!
I suggest you keep your comments reserved for those who need them certainly not me mate!
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you responded to a comment about Lichfield locals with some nonsense about the 36. I suggest we leave it there.
Much as I was left in Lichfield on Sat 14th August when Diamond failed to run their Lichfield locals that afternoon, nor were they answering the phone line to find out why. I asked a bemused driver who said it hadn’t run all day. There was certainly no tracking on bus times. Eventually the bus link turned up at their proper time.
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Are you mad? There is no nonsense about the 36/A its an awful service from Chaserider if you don’t realise that you don’t understand anything about South Staffordshire bus services & Chaserider..
Chaserider recently handed back a local evening tender from TfWM as they found it impossible for them to run it . It’s now successfully operated by another operator.
Chaseriders sister company Select Bus has recently lost the tender for the 242 from Kinver to Stourbridge to the superior Diamond Bus being run from Kiddy.
One word of advice don’t try to get one over me or score points over buses in Birmingham & The Black Country mate you will live to regret it especially hiding behind yet another Cowardly & Pathetic Annoynous mask 😷
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¬ It it wasn’t already obvious that you don’t actually use the buses in Lichfield to everybody, it is now.
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Are you for real or just plan thick?
I met a client for lunch in Lichfield Spoons- The Acorn & used Chaserider 36 after getting Diamond Buses ever excellent premium 4H from home into Walsall
The 36 had one of thier godawful Optare Metroriders on it. I can remember the fleet number easily it was 144 like our iconic bus route in Brum.
Then got the NXWM X3 to Sutton Parade from Lichfields collection of bus shelters it calls a bus station to connect onto the X14 to Walmley Fox to visit another client late afternoon.
Then it was 71/5/4M home.
Get your facts right before you start accusing people mate or are you just an inarticulate muppet with no life who gets a perveted kick out of being a thicko?
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Keep it up, you are doing an impressive job at the hole you are digging.
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YAWN 🥱
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One journey, One bus, One route, One operator on a peripheral route which is mostly in the West Midlands not Lichfield – certainly not the same route as was under discussion which you obviously have never used, not even the same operator. So yes, a big yawn indeed.
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YAWN 🥱 YAWN 🥱
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YAWN 🥱
YAWN 🥱
YAWN 🥱
YAWN 🥱
YAWN 🥱
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Back to abusing other commenters again…
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YAWN 🥱
YAWN 🥱
YAWN 🥱
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Is this the same Richard Jones who stated that once you descend to personal insults (on the £2 discussion recently), then you’ve lost the argument?
As it is, Roger is quite clear that personal insults should be avoided. Richard enquiring as to someone (not me) is a “thicko”, or “inarticulate muppet with no life who gets a perveted (sic) kick out of being a thicko” or “Are you for real or just plan (sic) thick?” is high handed and not conducive to reasoned discussion.
It’s the behaviour of a bully. Roger – I hate to request this but can we have some moderation? We can’t continue to have one individual acting in this manner.
David
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If it’s the same Richard Jones from elsewhere (and given his past comments and posturing, it is), then unfortunately this is just the usual behaviour for him.
-blue
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I am always happy to share my honest & forthright comments about West Midlands Bus & other issues regarding the bus industry with others who are here to on Rogers excellent blog
I also enjoy engaging with others of the forum who engage in constructive thoughts & analysis & have no time for those who lower the discussions to a personal level which quite simply reflects on the individual themselves.
If however individuals wish to sink to that level I will respond proportionally.
I personally thank Roger for such inclusive analysis of the bus industry in his excellent blog which is a pleasure to read.
I personally look forward to issues and experiences encountered by Roger portrayed excellently from him & long may it continue.
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Richard, I type this with honesty – you come across as very erratic, and swing rapidly from civility to aggression seemingly whenever you percieve (often incorrectly) there is some form of slight against you. To say the least it’s concerning from the perspective of another human being.
Additionally your seeming need to respond in that manner simply ruins contributing to this blog for everyone else. Chill out, please.
-blue
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Thankfully Burton’s Diamond Bus East Midlands have more sense than join this bizarre development in competition on the X38
It should be noted that Buslink are using a livery akin to the erstwhile Stevensons of Uttoxeter & so many passengers will be familiar with the colours.
Similar competition has been sustained for a long period now between Midland Red (South) Limited & West Midlands Travel Limited between Nuneaton, Bedworth, Rugby & Coventry although National Express West Midlands recently removed validity of its entry price Daysavers & Travelcards now known as nBus from Warwickshire with passengers now requiring higher priced National Express West Midlands Outer Zone tickets which are not valid on any other operators within the West Midlands County.
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Diamond are far from excellent in Burton, My experience of the X12;
Timetable wrong on the website. Route different (unregistered) in Branston (this was before the emergency bridge closure), timetable displays at the roadside out of date, Stops not correct in the open data service. Real time information displays out of date. There are some mythical printed timetables which I’ve seen pictures of on the net but are not available anywhere. Drivers (which all seem to be borrowed from other parts of Diamond) not sure about the tickets they sell / accept.
Hardly a shining example to hold up to others in the industry.
X12 User
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Absolutely right. Burton was the dumping ground of the Arriva Midlands empire with very little investment in new vehicles for years. In fact, it was notable that when TrentBarton updated their X38 fleet c.2007, they sold them to Arriva as their fleet was so awful. How things change!
It was a relief for everyone in the town when Midland Classic came onto the scene, and even more so when they purchased Arriva’s Burton depot. New vehicles came. There were older secondhand purchases but presentation of the fleet was superb and so was the development of operation. It is no longer to that standard.
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When Arriva Derby became responsible for their Burton depot, I was told that no Burton route, except X38, made as much money as the worst-performing Derby route, so it’s not surprising that it got a collection of ancient vehicles and non-standard models. Nor that they were happy to sell to Midland Classic, while transferring X38 operation to Derby.
Jim Froggatt
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Full timetables & ticket information are available on Diamond Bus East Midlands website:
https://www.diamondbuses.com/staffordshire/?region=Staffordshire
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It may be. But it’s still wrong.
https://www.diamondbuses.com/media/5371/x12-a4-tt-240624.pdf
Saturday times are wrong.
Route outbound is wrong (it was arbitrarily changed in July – no new registration according to bustimes) – see their post on facebook…
The ongoing (since 8th August) bridge closure is for two years so the route needs altering / correcting as half of Burton is confused as to what route the bus now takes. Oh, and half the drivers are not doing the diversion advertised.
X12 user.
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I will pass this on to Tividale for their consideration in due course
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You might want to also tell them that the X12 link from the service changes page of the website (for a different set of roadworks at the Lichfield end);
https://www.diamondbuses.com/service-updates/?region=Staffordshire
takes you to the 12 (not X12) timetable. Which is perhaps just as well given the mess it’s in.
X12 user.
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I have noted your comments for future reference.
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I see the Nuneaton to Coventry service on a daily basis and use it occasionally. From quick observations it does seem as though loadings on National Express Coventry have dropped slightly in favour of Stagecoach. The latter has introduced some extra later evening journeys with BSIP funding as well which may have helped. Currently there are a lot of comments in the media about the unreliability of NXC services with late running (which may be out of their control admittedly) and cancellations across their entire network.
Future developments will be interesting. Assuming NXC will be included within the West Midlands bus franchising model (and there was a great deal of unhappiness when West Midlands PTE absorbed Coventry Corporation in 1974), what will happen to the Warwickshire routes? The corridor is certainly over used, but Stagecoach have an advantage in that many of their journeys extend to Atherstone or Hinckley and Leicester. However the TfWM timetables displayed at stops within Coventry didn’t mention it when I last observed!
Getting back on topic (sorry for the bus diversion!), I used Bus Link from Tamworth to Lichfield on Saturday. A first rate, professional service with an immaculate Scania that didn’t show it’s age. I suspect they may be picking up some former Midland Classic goodwill and Arriva aren’t making the best impression in the area either.
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With most passengers either paying a £2 single or having a concessionary pass, I’m sure the vast majority just get the first bus that comes along irrespective of colour or operator. They may not even be aware of who the operator is, not helped in many cases (although perhaps not in trentbarton land) by a lack of a consistent livery or branding being offered on a given route.
Michael Bennett
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Totally agree – the £2 fare cap also means that the taxpayer is helping to fund this totally pointless competition.
Mark Lyons
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I thought the Enhanced Partnerships were supposed to help eliminate this sort of thing,.
In my view the Enhanced partnerships have in general failed
We may now see far more franchising of services. So far franchising does appear to be delivering real improvements, It is early days though
The other option no is councils setting up their own bus operation. I suspect though that few will go down that road. It would be expensive and they would be competing against existing operators
It is possible particularly in the more rural counties that an LA may set up a school bus operation. Many have difficult contracting services at sensible prices from local bus and taxi firms
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Somerset have their own inhouse school operation. Pembrokeshire (not England) bought an operator – Edwards, Tiers Cross.
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Until May 4th of this year a sucessfull Enhanced Partnership scheme operated in the West Midlands County through the West Midlands Bus Alliance instigated by West Midlands Combined Authority with the various bus operators under the leadership of Andy Street CBE which provided Brummie bus users withsome of the lowest fares in England & some of the highest frequencies 364 days a year with all day tickets valid on all operators starting at just £4
However times & circumstances change & one of the final acts by Andy Street CBE was to instigate a full roots and branch review of the West Midlands Bus Network to be presented to the WMCA/TfWM Transport Delivery Committee to assertin the best model to be used going forward in the event of Mr Streets relection be it a continuation of EP or a move towards franchising going forward after the Mayoral Elections.
Under Mr Streets leadership the West Midlands Combined Authority had already purchased Walsall Garage from Mobico PLC earlier in the year.
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The taxpayer is only providing more funding if more people travel, which was the intention of the cap.
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More people are travelling so there has been a cost to the taxpayer for the fare cap. What isn’t clear, though, is what the post-Covid growth would have been in its absence. I also suspect that on a corridor with an increased frequency more passengers may be encouraged to use the bus than may have been the case otherwise. How many of them will revert to their previous mode of transport when the cap ends, or is fundamentally altered, remains to be seen. If fares do return to previous levels (or, given inflationary pressures since the cap was introduced, a higher level) the loss in passengers could be significant.
The fares cap has led to a fall in the number of period tickets purchased with passengers paying a capped fare as they go instead. In these cases the taxpayer is picking up some of the tab. On routes with more than one operator it is more likely that PAYG will be chosen over a period ticket with passengers simply boarding the first bus that turns up.
Mark
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No they aren’t and no it wasn’t.
Reimbursement for the £2 fare cap is fixed, it was agreed at the start of the year from a fixed pot (prior to that it was every few months as a temporary extension was announced), is unchanged and isn’t increased due to improvements in services or increases in passenger numbers. The payment is based on usage at a specific time (December last year for current payments) and doesn’t change until it is next negotiated at the end of the year, assuming the government extend it. Extra passengers gained don’t mean you get more money, passengers switching from season tickets to singles don’t mean you get more money except in so far as this may have been factored into the fixed payment agreed at the start of the year.
The publicly stated reason for the fare cap when it was introduced was to reduce the cost of living for existing users, not to grow the market generally however the longer it has run on for the more operators have been able to market it and the less emphasis there has been from all sides on the cost savings for existing users.
Dwarfer
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What a ludicrous comment. The fare cap is a subsidy for the passengers not the operator. All it’s doing is helping fund a low cost journey.
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hahah… consistent livery in TrentBarton land? waiting for a Two recently it could be red (old repainted Versa), orange (Mango), yellow (actually a Two) or green (actually that could be the back of a Mango?) not to be confused by an orange (my15)
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One of the reasons I dislike TrentBarton’s behaviour is their insistence on replacing established service numbers with names, which for a very long time weren’t even displayed in the destination display “because all buses are painted in route-specific colours so it isn’t necessary”.
So, when a plain red bus came round the corner you were left looking for a bit of card in the windscreen…
And now, as you mention, we have random liveries because of transfers between routes, on-the-day engineering needs or operational issues.
We also have routes like “the threes” where the route name alternates with the destination display – that also shows the route variation letter A, B or C.
Any other company would simply display route number 3a, 3b or 3c alongside the destination, but not TrentBarton. The marketing brand has to take precedence in ‘trentbartonland’, which is ironic when so often completely the wrong brand turns up.
It amuses me that people go on about TrentBarton being such an ambassador for the industry. If TB’s treatment of their customers is ambassadorial, I hate to think what awful must look like. They’re neither better nor worse than any other company in my experience.
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This is all public transport as a playground not a serious service. How are real people with real lives supposed to make decisions about where to live, work and be educated with this nonsensical constant upheaval in their bus service? I note the x66 in one direction only gets going at 8 and finishes at 17.10. Very helpful. The sooner this anarchy is binned the better. Can it be done better? Of course. Visit Switzerland for one.
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Yes, these comparisons with Europe. Almost all European public transport, certainly including Switzerland, is very heavily subsidised by UK standards. So the question is …do we want income tax or VAT to rise (the only serious option!)
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A small Levey on parking places could be used to help fund public transport
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And an increase in fuel duty (to fund the £2 fare cap). All part of government “nudging” people out of cars and aligning with claimed concerns about climate etc.
The big tech bros should be tapped for a contribution too.
Peter Brown
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Still trying to work out just what the DfT’s “better bus” is.
Looks like a LHD cross between a green Q2/3 and FRM1.
Probably a very good indicator of how highly they regard buses.
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Of course we are low taxed compared to Europe. And equally we are a failing economy with low productivity due to decades of under investment in human and physical capital. Put up fuel duty, use the parking levy and stick a penny on income tax. Absolutely!
MikeC
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| Can it be done better? Of course. Visit Switzerland for one.
Switzerland? Low frequencies, high fares and despite that lots of taxpayer support too. Not that you’d notice either of the latter as a tourist on a Swiss pass.
The much-lauded inter-mode connections don’t always work, either. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only person who’s watched a postbus drive past a railway station early as I was getting off the train that was shown as a connection.
Mind you, I’ve only travelled on 90% of the Swiss rail network so perhaps there’s a bit I missed that was absolute perfection.
We could go German-style instead, I suppose, with poor interurban bus links because they try to force you onto trains and with Saturday services running at Sunday frequencies, so a route which runs hourly Mon-Fri will often only run two-hourly on a Saturday; not good for shoppers, workers or getting people out of their Mercs.
Or maybe French-style? Monday to Friday around school times only, often only within school catchment areas.
Etc., etc., etc.
I’m absolutely not claiming our system is wonderful because it clearly isn’t, but it helps if people take rose-tinted glasses off before claiming everywhere else is always better than we are. Public transport everywhere in Europe is a curate’s egg: good in parts.
Still, it’s all better than Kenya where I am at the moment, where Nicholas Ridley’s every-man-with-his-own-bus dream of deregulation has happened. They call them matatus here, and they’re appalling in pretty much every respect.
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Not necessarily Switzerland is far from perfect when I was recently travelling to my holiday in Villars in the Alps the EC was over an hour late & missed the connection at Aigle for the 144 leading to a 90 min wait. Similarly while I was there & popped to Gstad although the 162 came from Villars to Les Diablerets the connecting 180 to Gstad failed to arrive. The bus operations in Switzerland 🇨🇭 could in my opinion learn much from Diamond Bus West Midlands.
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CORRECTION : HOLIDAY HOME – APOLOGIES
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Mr/Mrs Mouse I travel regularly in Switzerland always by public transport. Only once have I been let down, by a late running train, in 1981. Interurban and rural frequencies are excellent. Fares can be high but this year we travelled from one end of the country to the other for only 52 francs so…. It works. I’m well aware it is supported by the tax payer but I support such support and it’s clear it is a big part of the Swiss economies great success. I don’t accept your characterisation of Germany’s public transport as poor. I agree French regional public transport can be very poor but in the cities is it certainly improving. So yes public transport is, on the whole, better in Europe and people can rely on it both in a micro and a macro level which we cannot here.
MikeC
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My understanding is that trentbarton have been struggling with resources, both driver and vehicle, for some time, and the X38 was always an early route to suffer “on the day” cuts.
This might help to understand the action taken by Arriva to register the full 3 BPH frequency, to in effect protect the route. It does seem incomprehensible that trentbarton were seemingly unable to run their share, but now have found the resources to run an extra 4 BPH !!
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You’re right, it’s all down to TB being unable or unwilling to resource the full service leaving the Arriva drivers taking the abuse for TB’s cancellations.
It’s typical of TB that they weren’t interested in the service until they were challenged at which point lots of management attention and the route is swamped. I don’t understand why Roger or anyone else is making out that TB is the injured party here.
Nor do I understand why competition is being championed on the Tamworth-Lichfield route. As ever it’s creaming off the little profit during the day from a route which really could do with the daytime journeys cross-subsidising evening journeys for network benefit.
But TB and Boddice alike are on the industry’s Good Old Boys list whereas Arriva aren’t.
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I thought to myself “the seat moquette on the Buslink vehicle looks familiar” and indeed it is – it was until recently owned by Cardiff Bus and has even turned up on my local route (which is mostly worked by Citaros and E400MMCs).
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Dear oh dear, I thought this sort of nonsense had ceased years ago. Why don’t these companies grow up and learn to play nicely together? Hopefully the new government’s bus policy will put a stop to this sort of thing, which just wastes money and benefits nobody. Graham L.
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So Trent Barton are now using 5 vehicles on the X38 rather than the previous 2, yet cannot run a full timetable on their other routes. There were runs missing again yesterday afternoon on the Rainbow One due to shortage of either vehicles or drivers and certain journeys are cancelled on a regular rolling basis and have been for a few years. They shouldn’t be allowed to increase frequencies on routes when they cannot maintain a full timetable on existing services.
Mitch in Notts
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Most ordinary bus passngers find this tye of wasteful competition pointless and stupid. All we want is a reliable service, provided with buses in a decent and clean condition, with friendly helpful drivers. Thesee two companies should be made to reinstate their previous agreement, or an amended version of it, and run a regular reliable service for the public. I am also amazed at the sheer arrogance of the Arriva manager in claiming that the company has a strong reputation for reliability and punctuality. Quite the opposite is true. I can assure you that Arriva’s recent departure from most of Buckinghamshire has gone unlamented by the travelling public. The replacement services, whilst not perfect, are more reliable and punctual.
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You are an industry watcher overthinking the whole thing – yes lots of parts of Arriva have been or are poor and that’s definitely the case in the Shires.
But that doesn’t mean everywhere is bad.
Derby is a decent operation and hasn’t been suffering the severe vehicle and driver shortages that have plagued Trent Barton for a long while now. Don’t just assume Arriva bad, Trent Barron good based on other parts of the operation.
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Would be keen to learn more about why you feel Arriva The Shires is poor?
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Trent Barton’s performance on the X38 has been poor for some time, with missing buses due to no driver or no available bus, and an inability or unwillingness to step up buses to counteract delays.
Arriva have therefore been taking up the slack for a while now, and it’s probably not a surprise they’ve got fed up and registered the whole thing.
As per the comment above, TB now seem to have the resource the run four buses an hour out of nowhere. I wouldn’t fancy relying on other routes from the same depot for a while.
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Trent Barton’s performance has been deteriorating for over a decade. There has been more focus on telling everyone what a really good bus operator they are, but the operations are awful, with many services missing and late running when buses do run a problem.
While I am no fan of Arriva, I think they may be the injured party on this one.
Gareth Cheeseman
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Diamond Bus East Midlands, Depot Manager off to Bristol so it’s rumoured, Engineering Manager gone to Trent, most of the supervisors have left as they cannot cope any more.
Sinking ship?
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Tividales Engineering Manager Ade has moved to Burton in sucession
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certainly at least choppy waters, although if the engineering manager is one of the OG Midland Classic team maybe Trent Barton have a chance in this x38 fight,
a inconvenienced local,
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My understanding is that the Travel Office on Drrby Bus Station is run by the Council and has never been run by Arriva. It has always marketed all operators’ publicity and tickets (obviously not Arriva latterly. since they stopped producing any) impartially
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I didn’t know Litchfield ( a village in Hampshire) had a bus station!
On a slightly more serious point, is there a sensible boundary between the East Midlands and the West Midlands? Hint: Burton-on-Trent, Lichfield and Tamworth are all in Staffordshire.
Ian McNeil
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And then Nuneaton in Warwickshire, (considered part of the West Midlands, but not under the mayor’s jurisdiction) is virtually joined to Hinckley in Leicestershire, part of the East Midlands. Passenger flows don’t always fit neatly into the West Midlands and East Midlands boundaries around here and often bus tickets (apart from a single £2 fare of course!) don’t adequately reflect this!
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It does have a tunnel, though!
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Ian,
| is there a sensible boundary between the East Midlands and the West Midlands?
Simple answer? No, there isn’t.
It’s… permeable.
Lichfield and Tamworth are West Midlands, Burton is East Midlands. It’s more about what the locals identify themselves as being, which in turn has more to do with where they’ve historically looked to for employment and leisure and culture (note that today’s political boundaries aren’t really relevant in this context).
Lichfield, Tamworth (and Nuneaton, since Keith mentions it) all look towards the metropolitan West Midlands for those purposes. Burton looks to Derby, Hinckley looks to Leicester.
And to add an outlier near Nuneaton and Hinckley, Rugby’s a weird one. I’m not sure if it’s East Midlands or West, and I’m not entirely certain that they know themselves.
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Officially it’s in the West Midlands. Although the people I know who live there would certainly not identify with that fact!
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The East & West Midlands are very similar to what is in Brum & what is in The Black Country & where they start for example on Hagley Road I always say the boarder is at the old 9 turning circle outside the Cinema at Quinton similarly though nearby Bearwood has always been in Warley so this would be in the Black Country with Brum starting at Barnsley Road on the old 11 route. It’s all very subjective.
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| Officially it’s in the West Midlands.
That’s a political boundary, though, and they don’t always agree with people’s, shall we say, ’emotional’ regional boundaries.
Doesn’t help when those ’emotional’ regional identities are co-opted to create political identities. West Midlands is a perfect example; when someone says “West Midlands” do they mean the conurbation and its associated political infrastructure, do they mean the western side of the Midlands or do they mean the ’emotional’ region of the West Midlands which is less to do with any specific location than the area with which people feel connected.
All good fun!
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Not the first time the X66 has appeared on Lichfield and Tamworth streets.
Never thought I would see the day that Arriva felt the need to “step up” and “rescue” a service because of poor operation by another Operator. It is normally the other way round!
Terence Uden
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Is the DfT not aware of which side of the road we drive on in this country?
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There is much talk of Franchising at the moment but it is all area/county based.
Like many bus services The X38 is a service that crosses county boundarys (In this case Staffordshire and Derbyshire)
Cross boundary services between the West Midlands and Warwickshire have been overbussed for years wasting vehicle and staff resources providing services with uncoordinated times and ticketing to users (brand products to those with that mentality).
The current debacle on X38 shows deregulation in its worse light, this week I compiled a comparison of bus maps in Brighton including pocket Bus Times from 20 years ago advertising joint ticketing between two companies in the deregulated environment to bus users benefit. Well three as the Master Rider was valid on Southdown too.
The future the rail industry is clear, however it has a head start with unified ticketing and information systems controlled by one national body.
The bus industry had the National Bus Company which was group of companies that were nationalised not a national bus service.
A bright future for bus users requires someone with vision to deliver a unified national bus service with consistent standards.
Imagine the Chanceller in the Budget saying we are going to have a system where fuel is bought on the basis of the roads that you expect to travel on in advance.
Thats what happens on buses now, hence why I had to pay £2 in Shoreham on Sea yesterday despite having an area day ticket.
Great Britains Railways is a walk in the park by comparison with the challenge to deliver a great bus service to the British public!
John Nicholas
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John Nicholas – the situation you describe in Shoreham is no different to rail tickets being restricted to a specific operator e.g. Avanti or LNW only tickets, instead of an any operator one.
The ticket valid on all operators in Shoreham is the Discovery ticket. Unsurprisingly options restricted to fewer operators tend to be cheaper.
KCC
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KCC
Apologies for time taken to reply as I had to return home after a day on Edinburgh’s brand new electric buses to check my facts.
Pocket Bus Times dated 24th April 2005 states Saver ticket priced £2.60 (£4.45 today) even cheaper in packs of 5 was valid on all Operators services in Brighton area except night buses and Park and Ride. Half the price of a £10 Discovery ticket.
The difference with weekly Master Rider is just as stark. £20 in 2005 (£34 today). Even if I only travelled 5 days a week it would cost me £50 to have the equivalent of a “Brighton Oystercard”.
Thanks for the thought provoking point about Avanti and LNWR which shows flexible all operator ticketing isn’t a given in the Franchised transport model.
Sadly historical information isn’t available on line as I would have replied last night while zooming along on my cumfy Pendolino!
Roger you should try Edinburgh’s new electric buses they have next stop information that copes with diversions! Currently on 8, 9 and an occasional 24.
John Nicholas
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It seems Arriva wanted to extend the X38 into Derby bus station, & increase the frequency to 4 buses an hour to be shared with TrentBarton but TrentBarton either ignored or refused the request, & responded like this.
Won’t be surprised if common sense prevails & the X38 goes back to joint operation either just before Christmas or first half of next year.
SM
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The Arriva registration, running all over the Trent service, went in before the new Trent registration.
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The customers would be better served if TrentBarton pulled off the X38 entirely given that they’ve been missing entire circuits out for a long time and clearly aren’t genuinely interested in the service.
Arriva could then resource the whole X38 at a sustainable frequency, and TB could shift their limited resources to filling in gaps in other services.
A lot of the commentators here have the impression that TB must still be an amazingly good award-winning company but, as I’ve posted here before, it’s a very long time since TrentBarton lived up to their “really good bus company” strapline and it says a lot that Arriva are the better of the two operators involved!
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Having recently recruited a senior member of Rotalas Engineering Team no doubt Trentbarton are looking to improve themselves & are aiming emulate the high standards set in the industry by Diamond Bus across the Midlands………..
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Some comments from a Derby resident.
Trentbarton (TB) had a driver shortage, now mostly resolved, followed, more recently, by a shortage of serviceable vehicles. I now longer look at apps to see if my bus is on time, but if it’s running. The situation has now been improved by the delivery, in the last two months, of 29 new buses, which explains how TB have been able to find extra buses for X38.
Roger’s post on 23 July (MK1 on the M1) quotes Toby France (whose patch includes Arriva Derby) saying that Arriva’s new owners were keen on developing growth opportunities. I think he has found two here, because in addition to the inter-urban passengers, Arriva X38 is now accepting Derby Day and Period tickets between the Bus Station and the Royal Hospital. This means that patient and visitors travelling into the city centre on other Arriva routes can cover the X38 section for an extra £1.30 return, instead of paying £2 each way on TB’s Mickleover. Hospital staff with weeklies can save even more.
The situation last week was even more complicated than Roger reported. Because TB didn’t get their registration is early enough, it kicked in a week later than Arriva’s. So they ran their new timetable (presumably for free) plus the journeys on the old registration, giving 9 buses in some hours! I haven’t yet had a trip to Burton, but the buses I saw passing all had single figure passenger loads.
Neither operator is show-casing new vehicles on the route. Arriva have 58-plate VDL Pulsars cascaded from Merseyside, while TB are using 09-plate Volvo Eclipses redundant from their H1, Derby – Heanor. This is not improving air quality on Derby’s busy Uttoxeter Road.
The route is unusual from a local authority perspective, as most of it is in Derbyshire but that doesn’t include any stops. They are at each end, in Derby City (a unitary) or Staffordshire. I know that Derby City Council are unhappy with the situation, but can do little about it. It’s disrupting the previously smooth running of a bus partnership that long predates BSIP.
Hopefully some face-saving solution can be found soon.
Jim Froggatt
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to be fair to TB they have had some MMCs on it including 2 of the 24 plates today (although I do prefer the eclipses for their front seat) either way at least Arriva aren’t putting the streetlites on it (yet),
A local
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Stagecoach are moving into Guernsey having won the contract to operate the bus services there, The Current operator is CT Plus
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As someone who holds a Jersey Passport having had Grandparents from the island; the rules have long since changed; and being a regular visitor to the island you wonder if Stagecoach will bid for the island bus contact when Liberty Bus term is up. Have to say I spent much of my summer holidays in Jersey at my grandparents in the 70s & 80s & JMT was a law unto itself who would ever believe you a bus network with lightweight Ford Midi buses!
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Can anyone fill in the gap I have in the bus history of the area, say under the Transport Act 1948? Which state owned company would have been “king” over the Derby/Burton corridor at that time please? This would have been the East Midlands Traffic Area with drivers and conductors wearing “EE” licence badges!
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In this era The Birmingham & Midland Motor Omnibus Co Limited operated in most of Staffordshire alongside Harper Brothers & the other lindependents . Burton like Derby had its own Corporation fleet but Midland Red operated directly from Birmingham to Derby .
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https://www.midlandred.net/service/timetable/search.php?service=all&operator=bmmo&sortby=service
Here is the timetable for Midland Red X12 starting from 1948 & continued well into the Midland Fox & Stevenson era although later truncated at Burton as 112 the remains of which are now NXWM/ Diamond Bus X3/X12
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I’m afraid I have to correct you about the Derby leg of the X12 surviving into Midland Fox days.
When Midland Red OC introduced the ‘Lancer’ (Coalville & Swad garage) MAP changes in 1979, the X12 was withdrawn between Burton and Derby; instead it was operationally linked with the Burton – Swad – Coalville – Leicester routes, with the terminus varying between Burton and Swad over the years.
You could argue that the ‘original’ X12 was completely withdrawn in 1979 as the replacement was actually the 112 renumbered and running Limited Stop in the WMPTE area; the original X12 was (as was standard for Midland Red) an all stops service but with carrying restrictions on the Burton-Derby section to protect Blue Bus and Trent.
As much as (with my historian and enthusiast hats on) I might wish otherwise, I doubt we’ll see its return (or that of the X99 Brum – Nottingham, or any of the other Midland Red Limited Stop services that were later branded Midland Express), simply because every attempt in the past 30 years to run a through Burton – Lichfield – Birmingham service has failed, and there hasn’t been even an attempt at running a regular interval cross-Burton service to Derby in that time.
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Yeah I agree with that I ment the X12/112 running from the BullRingBusStation direct to Burto under Midland Fox then Stevensons I regularly used the X99 in the 80s with an NBC EXPLORER.
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Burton-Derby is an interesting one as there was historically a mix of operators.
The only truly direct service was, as Richard Jones mentions, the Midland Red X12 but that really was a bit player, only running three times daily.
Trent Motor Traction (still extant as the Trent Buses licence use by TrentBarton) ran the “back road” route via Repton (service 5, basically today’s TB Villager V3, shared with Blue Bus) and “main road” via Willington (service 6). They combined to give three trips an hour, which has been the ruling frequency between Derby and Burton for many decades, albeit today the village routes are less frequent and it’s the main road route which carries the ruling frequency.
The other long-lasting route was operated by “Blue Bus Service” (Tailby & George) via Etwall, which is basically today’s TB Villager V1. Blue Bus sold out to Derby Corporation in the early 1970s, which resulted in Derby’s city buses pottering through the countryside to Burton through the 1970s and 1980s. Apparently Trent were not happy about the sale to Derby!
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Stevensons commenced a Derby – Lichfield- Birmingham service x38 in the early 1980’s, which combined with the X49 Rugeley – Lichfield- Birmingham gave an hourly fast service from Lichfield into Birmingham (35 mins) which also served the Lichfield Estates.
Once the railways introduced a regular every 30 minute service Derby -Birmingham that killed the x38, and the introduction of electric trains between Lichfield and Birmingham killed the X49, a similar effect to the whole of Midland Red ‘X’ network based on Birmingham.
Surprisingly the fast Derby to Burton service has never been extended to Swadlincote and South Derbyshire.
Tamworth to Lichfield has seen previous competition from Central Buses, and NXWM and Chaserider still compete between Burntwood and Lichfield.
Lichfield locals have seen numerous operators since the GreenBus/Midland Red service ,traditionally every 15 minutes but recently reduced by Diamond to every 30 minutes in their latest attempt to discourage passengers, along with pulling out of the all operator Staffordshire Knot ticket and the Lichfield local all operator ticket.
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Rotala pulled out of the Staffordshire Knot because quite simply it wasn’t make any money out if it and it was economically unviable.
People seem to forget under the current legislation- The Transport Act of 1985 – bus companies are in the market to make money & as with all businesses if a product isn’t succeeding its axed.
Although a new Buses Act is passing through the commons currently which will revise the scenario.
Rotala had similar economic problems with the financial challenges of the West Midlands Bus partnership with TfWM. Thankfully negotiating between all parties involved was successfully concluded mainly thanks to the direct intervention of Andy Street CBE & the economic imbalance faced by Rotala was corrected and West Midlands Bus continued successfully until May 4th this year.
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https://uktransport.fandom.com/wiki/Derby_Corporation_/_City_Transport_and_Trent_Motor_Traction_jointly_operated_routes
This wiki article includes some background to the current X38 service in the context of wider (pre-dereg) co-ordination between Trent and Derby City Transport
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SULLIVANS BUS IN ADMINISTRATION
Unconfirmed reports of Sullivans bus going into administration, Given the company on its last accounts was making a loss it does seem likely the report is correct
Sullivans had 3 companies whether all three are in administration I do not know. Nothing about it on the HCC Web site but as in administration they can still be trading at present
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Update
Companies house only shows Sullivan Buses Ltd as in liquidation, Sullivans Engineering and Thorpe Park Buses are still shown as trading
Whether the remaining bus services will e affected by the liquidation is unclear at present
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The Herts routes appear to be registered under Sullivans Engineering so appear not to be directly affected by the Liquidation of Sulllivan Buses Ltd
The buses though I think were based at the South Myms Sullivans buses depot is unclear also Sullivans Engineering was up begore the Trfaffic Commmisionrs what the outcome of that is I do not know
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The last published accounts for both Sullivans Engineering and Thorpe Park buses both showed them make a loss
Looking at the liquidators report for Sullivans buses Ltd it show then owing Sullivans Engineering a £149,000 and Thorpe Park buses £18,000. It is unlikely they will get any of this money so both Sullivans Engineering and Thorp Park buses appear to be in a very weak financial position
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If TrentBarton can find the vehicles (which I would paint a distinguishing red) and drivers, then a 15min X38 frequency might be of use, giving a “joint” 7.5min headway , which should really attract passengers
JBC Prestatyn
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Rotala pulled out of the Staffordshire Knot Ticket because they were not making any money out of it and it was unviable? Fascinated to know how many (few?) they sold, monthly , probably in the low hundreds. Are Diamond East Midlands finances so precarious that this would make a difference, and make it the only large operator not to be in the scheme to the detriment of passengers? And before Richard Jones tells us Trent are not in the scheme, but they are peripheral to Staffordshire.
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They must need every penny as at around the same time they stopped offering “change” tickets, preferring to keep any change due from the driver (if none available) for themselves instead.
From experience there were very few Knot tickets about, mostly on X12. But as the revenue stops with the operator it was bought from, this was offset by passengers going in the opposite direction.
X12 user.
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Making an observation from Derby… Users of the 5/5A Arriva service which includes the Royal Derby Hospital are disappointed that its frequency has just dropped to hourly, from every 30 minutes (daytime). The addition of a new 6 service for part of the route and a more convenient stop in town do not compensate. Also, the timing is very poor as the Hospital is shortly to close its main on-site car park while it constructs a multi-storey. The alternative provision is a 5 – 10 minute walk or (free) shuttle mini-bus away.
Suspicion locally is that Arriva found the capacity for the more frequent X38 at least partly from this (and some other) service reductions.
PS Why can’t bus companies talk to each other directly, rather than need a third party (Council) to broker a meeting??
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on the question of why bus operators can’t talk to each others, I suggest you research the findings of the report on the activities between Go North East and Arriva in the early 2010s
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And even further back on Leeds between Arriva and First (late 1990s?).
The inability to discuss co-ordinated timetables and fares initially occurred in the mid-1990s, when the Competition Commission got involved. In the early days of deregulation, the conversations were had; just very quietly … !!
Where fares had been coordinated pre-dereg …. it carried on for some years; we would simply ensure that some “quiet” fares on each route were 5p different.
The CC did more damage for the cause of passengers than they ever prevented.
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